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The answer to how much vacuum energy is is it's the quantum answer. The quantum answer is correct. And >> you know people talk about um you know even with the kasmir force which you know we've talked about but never really mentioned what it is. I know you've talked about it on your show before but you know when you have two plates uh that are close together or other objects they don't have to be plates. Some of the modes of the vacuum are excluded from in here some of the frequencies. So there's a lot more outside than inside and it causes the plates to smack together. You can have different materials. You can actually get repulsion by using different materials on the inside. But um what's interesting is you can derive that force the casmir force with never invoking vacuum fluctuations. It's something called radiation reaction. And you know it's a normal ordering in the quantum electronics. I I I don't know that much about it. I'm not you know I'm an armchair chair physicist if anything. And uh but I do know that this is the case. So you know again that's an example. Are vacuum fluctuations really um real or not? um and uh can we use them? what what's the uh you know are they mutable and you know what's this difference between the cosmological constant and the the value that QED predicts you know so I'm just pointing out this is the area that science should be pursuing the breakthroughs are going to happen >> well you know in in terms of white and modell as well as what you're doing with tunneling diodes and what Buer is doing on a slightly larger scale in terms of zero point energy I mean probably like anybody else who took college physics right um you know we all learned about ZP PE we all learned that if you hit the vacuum hard enough with a particle, it'll eject an antiparticle. You know, the basics are all there. There was always this idea that you can't extract net energy from it. And so to see what they're doing now, I'm like, "Oh my god, you know, that's amazing." And even more amazing, the part for me that is mind-blowing is they're putting it on a chip, which means they can put that into transistor packaging. They can fabricate that like a semiconductor. And so with the tunneling diode system that you're using in theory as you refine that, do you think that that's something that you might be able to put on a chip and basically amplify the power thousands or millions of times? >> Yeah. So that that that's the way we make it. We make it just in a you know regular semiconductor fab. Um and we >> did Tim Ventura not know that those are microchips that they're doing? It's like a diode. What do you think a diode is? A diode is a semiconductor. Semiconductors refer to all of the components of a microchip of a circuit of a tiny little circuit. So semiconductor industry when we talk about a semiconductor company we're talking about microchip companies. That's what we're talking about. And what he's like, "Oh, is that the next step? Do you put it on a microchip?" Yes. Yes. It feels like Tim Ventur is like on the MH370X bandwagon from like a year ago when we were like this is all about putting it on microchips. Like why bother with a free energy over unity magnetic motor? You don't want a magnetic motor that's three feet wide. I want a microchip that goes in my phone. A microchip that goes in my phone. That's where engineering is at right now. And later on in here, he's going to explain how the other science that he's been researching leads to that lithography. Lithography is making microchips. Making microchips. That's where we're at today. I don't want us to figure out where we were at in the 70s or the 80s. How does that help us? That doesn't help us. I want us to figure out where we are at now in 2025. That's the technology we need to steal. We need to steal the technology they're working on today, not the technology they had 30 years ago. That's all that's obsolete now. >> Do it on a silicon wafer and and you can make an array of diodes um you know across the wafer um so you can have millions of dodes all generating forces and those all add up together. Um and uh you know yeah so that way you can generate uh with these very micro structures really large forces and um you know the first application we're looking at is for um for space propulsion because it's you know you don't need much force but as the technology matures you know just kind of like sunnies and garretts you know they're generating a little current right now uh as we understand more about the mechanism and the physics you know of course that's going to increase we'll be able to generate more I would think we'll be able to generate larger forces that would have a a lot of terrestrial application as well. And like I mentioned, you know, just being a generator and making a magnet rotate, you can generate electricity that way. Everyone could have their own little thing that's generating electricity and um you know, never needs to be plugged in or fueled or anything, right? So it sounds sounds kind of impossible and yet it's um you know, it's all based on scientifically valid assumptions. So you know, but it hinges on that one key thing. Can we is the vacuum something we can interact with and you know and can we consider the universe an open system which to us it is it's an open system. So yeah so we're changing the vacuum and that's going off somewhere that's you know that's some someone else's in the universe's problem or issue. >> So if we are manipulating the vacuum conservation still holds. So if we are somehow able to make a system where we're able to get over unity out of that then that means there must be a debt being paid somewhere else. What he's implying here is that if we pull some energy from over here it's got to be coming from over here. So he's saying like if we are exchange energy it's not that we are like breaking the laws of physics we just don't see the impact of it. This is actually kind of a scary thought. There's something called the twin universe theory and that theory was basically developed to try to understand how free energy could be possible. Like you imagine that we're on the surface of a lake and you're looking at your reflection down below, right? It's like okay well if I pull energy out of here then it's yanking it from below. So wherever this were to move that means I'm subtracting from here and I'm adding to up here or vice versa. So, it's kind of like thinking like that. And it's another way to think of it's like plucking a string on a guitar. It's going to vibrate back and forth as well. So, I don't know if that's necessarily accurate to how the world will really end up how it really ends up working, but it's a scary thought to think about is that when you're taking your free energy, you might be taking energy from someone or somewhere else. Just keep that in mind. chaties background energy, but Fibido describes it as rectifying brownie in motion or basically latent heat energy from the environment into electrical current rather than extracting energy from the ZPE. It almost sounds like these are maybe two aspects of the same underlying constant. I don't know what what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, so I I know a little bit about Paul's work. you know, he gave a talk at one of our advanced propulsion and energy um workshops when his his um his first experimental information just just came out. Um I haven't followed too much of that lately. I should uh see how Paul is doing, but um yeah, so you know, I thought that he was thinking that the the random fluctuations would happen whether or not you had thermal fluctuations. So, you know, I'm I'm not really up up too much on on where he's at. And uh but you can imagine you know vacuum fluctuations making that graphine move and then you know that causing a little bit of current. Uh you know he he went through a lot as I remember to get his paper uh saying the right thing so it would be accepted. >> Yeah. Yeah. There that was and it was a breakthrough when it came out. I remember reading some news stories about that and it was it was mind-blowing. >> Right. Right. So it took some really hard thinking to uh reconcile what he was observing with the laws of physics. >> Yeah. >> And and he was able to do that to the satisfaction of the reviewers. >> It it really just you doesn't it feel like he's just like he's saying what only he can say from like to be accepted by academia? Like it feels like he's very carefully cutting out his responses here. He's like, "Yeah, I I thought Paul Tibido was going to say that like it has to have a thermal, you know, uh, vibr, you know, a change in order for that to do it." But no, Paul Tibido was clear. There doesn't need to be some thermal change for that thing to be extracting energy. He says that I remember actually Charles Chase asking that question and oh yeah, Paul Tibido had to go through all this this work. Yeah, bro. You know what would really help Paul Tibido out? if like you could be like, "Hey, yeah, I know it all works because we did all that stuff at Loheed Martin. That would be pretty helpful if you said that here." But no, he doesn't. >> Now, without mixing myself up too much because again, I'm kind of reaching the edge of of my able to teach me. But one of the things that surprised me was in Thibido's case, there was this idea of rectifying latent heat energy, which is almost like Maxwell's demon or Maxwell's zombies, right? Depending on who describes it as what. And so the idea is that you have kind of a one-way valve for heat energy. More energetic particles based on natural distributions may end up crewing on one side than the other and you build up a gradient. You could build up a current from that. Right. And with zero point energy, what you're describing in diodes sounds similar. Um I recall this this may have been yourself. It may have been Garrett Modell. I don't remember which. uh basically saying that electrons can tunnel through some types of diodes and if you modify the diode correctly, you may be able to generate a net electrical current just through random tunneling, right? They can tunnel one way but not another because of the way the diode is constructed. And again, that idea just grabbed me and I said, "Wow, amazing." >> Paul Tibido was in that. But yeah, >> so you know, I wouldn't be working on this so hard if I didn't think that uh there really was something here. And you know, and I've uh you know, I've known that for a long time.