Hard Truths #8 - Mark Sokol on Alternate Propulsion and Ufology

Video Transcript

is Mark soal he is the founder of both Falcon space as well as Apec and today we're going to be talking about some of his scientific work and some Advanced propulsion hey Mark welcome welcome to the uh podcast here today how are you doing uh I'm doing okay thanks for having me yeah so I think just let's get right into it first thing I want to ask about is uh you know both Falcon space as well as Apec uh can you give us a little bit of History around your experience as an engineer and why you started these organizations and what their purpose is okay so for those who don't know apek is the alternative propulsion engineering conference not to be confused with the Asia Pacific uh economic uh uh Confederation or whatever that is um which is usually find online um so I have a background in uh do it-yourself engineering um started a business refurbishing hybrid batteries and then um through various research you know go going diving down the rabbit hole I figured out that UFOs are real um extraterrestrials are you know visiting the planet Earth and that there's this technology cover up that's been going on um that coupled and coincided with the 2017 New York Times article uh about ATP uh that showed that the Pentagon was looking into this so um although there has been you know people who've looked into this research before and were you know were uh quieted out some uh somehow they were um either bought out or uh put six feet under I felt that because of the New York Times article and the Pentagon looking into this again um it's probably a safe time to give this another shot so I started the research on my own just in my spare time it became um an interest then it became a hobby and it went from becoming a hobby to becoming a passion and then from becoming an obsess a passion it went to becoming an obsession where I was literally obsessing over this trying to figure out how these craft work how am I going to do this you know what parts do we need um you know what experiments can we run I started meeting up with other people who had similar interests there are other people out there um and uh from there actually we found uh people with money who were willing to fund us so I was able to close down my battery business and Dev myself full-time to this and uh coincidentally like the uh pandemic came around and that that um uh the premier anti-gravity conference at the time would have met in person in EST Park Colorado um but because of the pandemic um it didn't and there was a zoom conference call instead and um we were supposed to speak over there to show off what we were working on that didn't end up working out and I realized that you know this conference went over so well on Zoom I might as well just do one myself on Zoom just it's just an email list and a zoom account there's really nothing to it um and we got in touch with h Tim Ventura of American anti-gravity because he's the only person I could find online who's actually ever you know managed uh or organized people who would speak on this topic before and um his advice was just to go mellow keep things easy it's like hurting cats you got to get everyone excited about it first they'll come to you open the tuna and they'll come so uh that's kind of what we did and um it's been uh about three years there's been I don't know like 60 or so conferences already with over 150 speakers we pretty much got almost every speaker that was willing to talk about this topic related to the field uh on ape at some point or another um yeah like if anyone's in this field and hasn't heard of ape then they must be living under a rock at this point so let me ask uh you know you dug right into the UFO thing and that was one of my questions I was going to ask you which is uh what are your thoughts on UFOs in general can you elaborate I mean I also came to a conclusion when the New York Times article came out 2017 2018 that there's something going on here and started to look into it what was your kind of Awakening what are your opinions on UFOs and you know you said that there's a cover up what convinces you of there being a cover up how deep do you think it goes and I guess maybe on a broad level like what what does disclosure mean to you um okay well I want to take this in a different direction there's the there there's the it's the fmy Paradox right of uh How likely is it that we're going to come in contact with aliens there's a bunch of different different parts of the equation how big the universe is stars planets livable but there's one thing that's missing that is binary and that is is FTL faster than light travel possible is there some way of tricking known science and allowing for for faster than light travel uh we know that certain particles travel faster than light um and the answer to this really is a binary question it could either be yes or it could either be no there's no middle ground here if FTL travel is possible that means the Earth has probably been already visited by uh extraterrestrials it's probably been terraformed by extraterrestrials and we are probably their progeny in some form of another which most um religions today say something like that that you know we're we're we're the uh the sentence of these gods or or whatnot beings that came from the heavens um but if it's the other way around if it's not possible to have faster and light travel then um the universe is a very lonely Place probably we're not going to really get very far I mean Mars is attainable but we're not going to really get much farther than that so it's really answering that one binary question is faster than light travel possible that I think is the key it's the technology that's the key they're not hiding you frozen aliens because they don't want us because they're afraid you know that we're going to quit are 9et to-5 and go crazy that there's gray aliens out there they're they're um they're afraid of the technology that's out there that will make the F35 you know Phantom jet uh obsolete um that's what they're worried about and how deep does the coverup go okay first of all it's not really a government coverup as far as I can tell it's more of a military-industrial complex so think back to 1947 Roswell um something definitely happened there and it was during the Cold War the beginnings of the Cold War aliens literally landed live aliens landed crashed um right outside the only nuclear um base on the planet um radar Advanced radar was involved in taking down that craft and we'll get to that in a bit um and here we have this technology and uh um the military did the you know what seemed logical at the time first they they wanted to disclose it to the World um and uh then they realized no we got to keep this secret um and they they handed it off to the military-industrial complex the smartest uh minds of the time people who were most advanced in the um in the relative uh uh Technologies in order to figure out how to reverse engineer it and uh the rumor mill has it that in uh about summer of 1954 so that's about seven years later they actually achieved the first arv or alien reproduction vehicle that's a um a a craft that can you know achieve some sort of anti-gravity effect um propellantless propulsion system uh using only man-made materials um and since then there's been more and more of them there has been visits I believe of extraterrestrials but a lot of The Craft we're seeing in the skies today um are terrestrial made oh so in terms of uh faster than like in terms of faster than like communication or travel so do you believe that it is possible then I mean you said it's a yes or no are you still trying to determine or do you think that all this kind of lines up to that being the case um I believe that I believe that it is possible yes and how would you what would your how do you think it is possible if you had to theorize or from any potential experiments you've done what would you say is the mechanism by which it occurs because obviously then we have to be able to bend the laws of physics at least right um well there's lots of things in physics that we don't fully understand and I think understanding them would um show you how it's possible uh one thing for instance um inertial Mass where does inertial mass come from um some may say the higs feeli but what does that mean I'm not really sure um and uh that's just that's just saying you know oh it comes from there but what is that that you're talking about you know it doesn't really answer the question um but mass is this mysterious uh force that uh constrains matter in into a um uh a a linear path and somebody's trying to call me and um if if we can affect the effects of inertial Mass on an object or or reduce the amount of inertial mass in the object we can essentially uh go faster than light because E equals mc2 is the reason why you can't go faster than light because as as you go faster the mass will increase by the square you know of the speed of light but if the mass is zero no matter how many times you multiply um or Square zero it will it will always be zero so what are your thoughts on like the alabar drive do you think that that could be a mechanism by which we accomplish it you know essentially warping the fabric space time around an object yeah that's another thing that's um uh the warp drive concept is also another way we can do it M so uh the speed of light is co uh is derived from the um permitivity and permeability of SpaceTime it's called new and Epsilon or the the amount of electric and magnetic uh push and pull bounce back that empty space has uh materials such as magnets like I'm holding over here or iron or or uh Plastics or uh you know different dielectrics that you put inside capacitors can have very high values of um you know uh pertivity and permeability SpaceTime though has a value of permitivity and permeability it's not zero which is which is insane when you think about it because the fact that it has some permitivity and permeability to it it has the these Electro uh magnetic properties to it means that that that is literally what is contributing to the speed of light as we see it um if you were to pile up energy in a spot in space and uh like build a standing wave build up an RF standing wave for instance in the near field around an antenna the speed of light will actually change because the permitivity and permeability of SpaceTime has changed over there as well um and using this mechanism we can push or pull off of SpaceTime and uh move things move move objects around move the craft around um and it's possible that in such a um in in such a mechanism uh the craft would not be limited to uh speed of light um like normal SpaceTime is um so so then just uh in terms of you know you said the military industrial complex you believe has this and and that Roswell you know happened and they may have uh gotten that technology you also said that you think that a lot of the uh you know objects UFOs that were seeing out there potentially man-made so what's your thought on like the military-industrial complex in terms of how far Advanced they've gotten you know because we don't see this from the public perspective right do you think that there is some kind of like Shadow government or Breakaway civilization at play what's your theory there um yeah I mean this is all stuff that's uh speculative um uh you could learn all you want about this by going to websites like Gaia or listening to the 20m backers and such but um I I would assume that there's some sort of breakaway civilization um Shadow government would be like the person that's three or four heads down from the top that has a permanent position that's who they tend to be um so we're not talking we're not talking the Joe Biden's or Donald Trump's in the world talking you know the the people that you haven't heard of usually are the ones that are actually in charge of this secret um and it's it's locked up in the department of Energy's classification system um there are classifications in the department of Energy's top secret uh you know secrecy Department that the president doesn't have access to and by by hiding stuff like that there in government they're able to keep it secret but they don't have to keep most of the secret secret in government because it's not really government secret it really comes down to locky Martin skunkworks northr brummond um some parts of Boeing that are you know privy or working on these projects together so how do you think they keep it secret then I mean uh you know is it just because it's private organizations you can't access it like or why do you think there's not more people that kind of speak out you know you you've talked to a lot of these engineers in your ape conference right have you yeah there are many that do speak out the thing is when they speak out the stuff they say is so crazy nobody takes them seriously um but they do speak out and they have speed out and they they've even written books about it but nobody reads the books nobody seems to care um so yes they have one great example of this was like the second in command Pentagon wrote a book day after Roswell Philip J Corso wrote this book and that was one of the books that convinced me hands down this stuff is real um this guy's credentials were you know Second To None um he described how he took uh parts of the craft and handed it over to Bell labs and you know other uh companies that went on to develop great things with it here in the US so um you know from my perspective that was that was Case Closed UFOs are real aliens crashed we have and we we're back engineering their technology and you know that that's the world that we live in right now um the the thing is that um amazing claims you know big claims require lots of uh evidence and the people coming forward other than their um uh then their eyewitness testimony usually don't have that much evidence they don't have anything hard in hand and if they do gets stolen from them very quickly um taken away so uh there you have your dilemma you you have on one side a populace that doesn't really want to believe they don't really want to look into this they'd rather believe in in the lockness monster and they would believe that aliens have been visiting us for the past you know 10,000 years you know it's funny you go to Scotland the t-shirts they give out says I believe and it shows a picture of the locked us Monster whereas when you're in Roswell it says I want to believe it should be the other way around because in Scotland they want to believe everyone there knows that it's not that it's not real yeah even the guy who who bought a house on the side of the lake and been watching it for 30 years he admits it's not real but um but UFOs are very much real yeah so uh I guess the followup there then logically is so I and I totally agree my opinion is uh coincides with what you mentioned in terms of people just don't seem to Really Care H you know they care more about what the Kardashians did last night than they care about advanced technology that would change at circumstances of millions of people so how would you go about achieving disclosure like how let's assume it's real that there are being visiting us and there's this advanced technology how do we get disclosure out of that like what's the path forward in your mind uh so the equipment behind me we have signal generators RF amplifiers Spectrum analyzers power supplies um this amplifier over here came from Sania National Labs where a lot of This research was actually done in the first place um this lab over here is researching the fundamental technologies that we believe are Behind These phenomenon by by doing this research by moving it Forward by uh getting larger and larger results um and actually starting to build prototypes in craft I believe we can push the needle far enough um that people will start to take notice and whether the scientific Community all comes on board at once I don't care um all that matters is that we we get the technology built and we you know bring it forward to the world and once that happens um the naysayers will have nothing left to say yeah now how it feels like though that we had a big disadvantage right like if this technology is being produced by locki Martin and north of grummond Boeing Bigalow airspace Etc they've got tens of billions of dollars right versus you know just like having a small lab right so how and this is something I've been wondering myself is like so what kind of tests can we get that are going to be equivalent enough large scale enough to be able to prove that we can you know float crafts because I've seen stuff like the uh towns of brown experiments right where we can prove that there's alternate mechanisms of levitation propulsion but like how do you get something big enough to really track the attention of the media whoever else what's your opinion um I'm I'm not interested in attracting the attention of the media anymore it's not really about that we're we're trying to inct uh investors and and more importantly very smart people who want to join our uh our cause people who can actually contribute RF Engineers um various um smart people who can actually help out with the experiments and the engineering side of things and scientists um that that that are open enough to uh to looking into these possibilities those are the people that actually matter um whether or not we make it to the front page of some big tabloid newspaper doesn't really matter to us uh what matters more is the technology what happens in the lab uh what we can build what we can test what we can prove and what we can improve on and so you know in terms of those people my what I've kind of heard at least is a lot of these people get sucked up by the government by the dod and and and forced into kind of working for them or enticed into incentivized what's your opinion on that and then like how do you attract those people go ahead I've seen it firsthand really yeah yeah yeah I've seen the first time people what do you think makes that happen what do you think somebody has to do in order to get a knock on their door um uh they're they're keeping tabs and uh they're they they just I'm I'm I'm not really sure but I I think they're keeping tabs on on uh on the on our study groups and uh trying to cherry pick out who who would be useful for their for their projects they do have much larger budget than than we do by many many orders of magnitude and I I can agree with that with you there but uh we are doing open open source uh research over here we're showing everyone what we got and um telling everyone about it and I think that's that's important that's an important part that's something that they don't do now just changing gears a little bit going to Apec um you know what are some of the most compelling presentations that you've seen you know regarding the present everything that's been shown there are there any offand that you think that you want the world to know about um so on the theoretical side David Chester's presentation was pretty good he um he put together an analysis many different models um on the hardware side we've seen presentations from uh uh um Drew arera from Drew arera and the the other guy uh Charlie Bu from uh down in NASA uh Kennedy Space Center they're working on uh basically gravity capacitor kind of thing and they're they're seeing pretty pretty promising results we've also seen um presentation by David Perez from Quantum electrodynamics um who I'm working with closely uh who achieved several kilo of thrust using some sort of warp drive device using fractal antennas and ham radio equipment um and there's also been uh presentations by uh Bryant Sinclair who who showed pretty definitively some sort of thrust being created from a inertial propulsion device or um we call the mass throwers because they're pretty much hammers that fly around in funny um orientations and smash into things and uh devices kind of want wants to destroy itself it's at the limits of engineering but uh moving Mass around you can actually convert angular momentum to linear motion just do by doing that and then um you know I've given some presentations as well showing off some of the results that we got over here with our experiment um and our experiment for those who don't know is uh based off of this paper anti-gravity present technology um from Frederick alaon so we call the alaon experiment and in it this he published this in 1981 after he got a provisional patent that was uh patent pending on his uh on his theory and basically what it describes is a method of orienting subatomic particle spins and there's many different ways why you can think this would actually affect matter but uh bottom line is matter or mass comes from the the inertial mass comes from the core of the atom so doing something that affects the core of the atom is is the rational place to start when you're looking for ways to affect mass itself because that's where it comes from uh go to the source and uh one of the uh things that you can do to matter um is called Dynamic nuclear orientation you can Orient the subatomic particle spins um now the only known use for dynamic nuclear orientation nowadays here's the book on it by CD Jeff is to um uh increase the nuclear magnetic res uh Imaging or like an MRI machine the signal to noise ratio you're able to increase it by thousandfold when you have this Dynamic nuclear orientation going on as well um and we believe that when Dynamic nuclear orientation is achieved in a sample or or in a craft let's say then the um the mass itself uh will become weightless along the plane and axis of Spin and um we've actually recently proven that that there there is there is a correlation with uh eight consecutive tests all showing the same data point weight loss at the same point in a magnetic field sweep um it basically involves two components you have to have a homogeneous magnetic field and then you have to have frequencies that go up and down or perpendicular to that magnetic field a slight change in um that will um energize the L more frequency of the veence electrons which is dependent on the strength of the magnetic field that's why we're doing sweeps in order to find the exact sweet spot but um by pulsing energy into the veence electrons they're able to transfer their orientation energy to the core of the atom and build up orientation through a pulse process over time and um but that's exactly what we've seen with this experiment over here on we're trying to improve on that and built up more and more orientation also I recently found out about an effect called the overhouse are uh near field interaction effect basically um when you build up this Dynamic nuclear orientation um the uh the orientation is contagious kind of like an electromagnet or a magnet let's say this is a magnet the field sort of like go around like a toret like that in all directions the same thing happens with nuclear orientation um in the core of the atom um it objects that are nearby will be imparted with a similar effect which which explains why when flying saucers take off they sometimes bring up a pug of grass or dirt with them and it's usually roughly the shape of the craft or slightly smaller that's because that's the shape of the field that is being oriented um but another reason why these craft don't like to land because when they land then they have to orient the ground with it too because the effect you know goes you know permeates everything around it so is that like a coherence effect or self-organizing effect then would how would you not self not self-organizing it's a coherence effect yes uh yeah just like coherent light is a laser and you're able to do amazing things with laser incoherent light is just you know it's just light but when you're able to concentrate it you're able to to amazing you're able to cut metal with with lasers um with just a few watts of it too like and whereas a light bulb that has the same amount of Watts you could buy them for like $5 you know 100 watt light bulb can't do anything same same amount of heat it's all about concentrating and creating coherent States so we're we're basically creating coherent matter and um the the idea behind it really stems from where does a inertial mass come from so we we know that it comes from the core of the atom but uh in the core of the atom you have protons and neutrons these subatomic particles which are essentially electromagnetic energy spun in on itself so you have a bunch of these spinning um gyroscopes let's call them okay so let's say this is the axis of the gyroscope and it's and its uh energy is rotating around very quickly so this is the Magnetic Moment of it the um the Magnetic Moment or the uh axis of rotation is rotating itself as well that would be called A procession but there's many processions going on simultaneously so while it's doing this it's also wobbling in this direction and it's also wobbling in that direction it's wobbling in many different directions simultaneously so imagine if you had a jcope in your hand that was doing all these rotations simultaneously and then you moved it through space What would happen well if you had a gyroscope like that in your hand that was doing all those spins at once what would end up happening is the wobbles the incoherent wobbles that of the uh um of that gyroscope would change by moving it through space and so when you think of a piece of matter let's say a baseball or something like that you throw it through space what you're actually doing is imparting energy or changing the subatomic wobbles of all the particles that make up that baseball that is where the inertial mass is actually changing that's where the the energy the the momentum is being stored it's a change in subatomic particle wobbles now the way to get rid of that is by orienting them because when you Orient them just like a regular gyroscope it's free to move along its plane and axes of rotation without any restriction but as soon as you try to change that axis that's when it imparts a 90 degree you know if you try to turn this way it'll it'll want to go that way but um and that's what we see with flying saucers they're they're able to go uh do 90 degree turns at 10,000 miles an hour go straight up fly off at insane seeds but the one thing they can't do is a barrel roll they cannot twist over quickly in fact many of the sightings that we see of these flying saucers are of them huffing um in place slowly changing their orientation because they need actual thrust to do that um because the craft let's say weighs the equ 20 tons it needs enough thrust in order to reorient itself but doesn't have many thrusters on board because it work Works using this Mass reduction principle once it's in its new orientation shoots off along the Axis or along the plate sounds like Bob Lazar in terms of what he said about the objects like turning up on their side or whatever what are your thoughts on him so my thoughts on Bob Lazar um let's say we had a time machine and we were take a car back to the 18th century right what if we took back an Austin Martin you know F1 carbon fiber vehicle right we took it back then and uh we handed it over to the scientists of the time and they spent their entire career trying to figure out carbon fiber that would have been a complete waste of time because the secret is in the engine right the secret is in the uh um is in the combustion chamber so I think um bobbles are made very well be telling the truth on everything that he said that's possible there's some people out there that that you know think that he was lying and T Seer but let's claim he he was saying the truth on everything I believe he was looking at him claring F1 he was not looking he was not looking at a Honda Accord he wasn't looking at you know what is necessary he wasn't looking at the Model T definitely not the Model T he was looking at he was looking at something super Advanced something so advanced in fact that we have nothing you know to work on here and what ends up happening you know the reason why they allowed him to go forward with all this stuff is that element 115 is not available online on eBay or Amazon and everyone knows that we don't have we haven't synthesized it yet in a stable form it might be synthesizable who knows but um the bottom line is it's not available so anyone who has an inklink to go into this type of research what they end up doing is looking at you know for element 115 they seeing it's not available and they go off to become an accountant um and there's very few people that actually go on and become RF Engineers I actually met one recently that that uh that went in that direction the one thing that Bob Lazar said that was very telling this is one of the few things that he mentioned that was of his own intuition it wasn't uh stuck into his head he said when he was inside the craft he saw these um wave gu looking things like tune tubes that were uh transferring this gravity a-wave or b-wave or whatever and he said they look like microwave wave guides which is very interesting because a lot of the stuff behind me is microwave wave gues that's how you that's how you uh Orient that low more procession that's how you create uh warp Fields if you're going to change the permitivity and permeability of SpaceTime you do it either with microwaves you could do with larger waves but it's got to be done with RF and um he had the intuition to tell that's what it looked like to him that's probably what it looked like because that's what it was that's uh pretty interesting in terms of uh the connections there between you know I always find it when people present story it's listening to story is one thing but you know we're never probably going to get the crafts wheeled out in front of us or the bodies so it's like what does it align with actual science physics engineering and when it does then I find it to be pretty compelling now a second ago and I I just I want to clarify for myself in the audience when you talk about orienting the spins are you talking about like the spins that we would talk about in terms of bons versus fermion with integer spins and half spins or is this actually like physically orienting the spins to be in some kind of alignment here with the atoms um that's a good question I'm not I'm I'm not certain that I definitely know the answer or even have the equipment to know the answer um the the thing the thing is that with uh subatomic particles spins um when we talk about spin we're only talking about it in the sense that we're able to measure it um now the the way to measure Dynamic nuclear orientation is by looking at your NMR signal to noise ratio um and as it as it increases you know that the dynamic nucle orientation has you know been you know perform to X degree but actually knowing what's going on in the core of the atom it's happening so quickly there's no equipment you know around today that can that can even read that kind of stuff to know for certain what exactly is happening um when we talk about the spin of a um of an atom what we're actually talking about is its imbalance um the imbalance of its electron band so think think of an atom as like a solar system where 99% of the mass of the solar system is in the sun that's the core and then there's the planets going around when they're talking about uh bismuth having eight2 eight half spin or whatever what they're talking about is you know Mercury uh Venus Earth all these planets they're all out of balance and they're they're going wobbling like this and like that that's what it's talking about it's not talking about what's happening in the core of the atom because the way we interact with bismuth the way we interact with every piece of matter is not by the core the core is what gives it Mass but the uh the the electron bands around it is what gives it its properties the reason why iron conducts uh magnetism is because of the veence Bands the the uh the number of shells of electrons that are around it and uh that goes for every single you know molecule compound out there we're we're interacting with the electrons we're never really interacting with the core other than the mass itself that is the only thing that really that really um you know comes from the core so if you want to get to the core and we're doing something that we call orientation by we think is actually transferring uh spin orientation at the core there's no direct way to measure it because there's no there's no equipment out there that can do that there's nothing that can measure stuff that's beenin that fast yeah so I guess it's somewhat theoretical then but you're actually looking to at observable effects right to try to determine what's happening then I think is the takeaway which leads me into my next question which is what do you think the relationship is between anti-gravity and superconductivity in general do you think that superconductivity is something that's required in order to achieve these coherent States or do you think it's a byproduct or how do you look at that aspect so superconductivity might be connected we do have a lot of super connectors here at the lab we've tried rotating them we tried impulsing a thousand million volts through them um yeah through vacuums and different uh gas Chambers and all that um but we need to understand what is a superconductor is essentially um a material that has no electrical resistance but the electrons aren't the problem the problem is the protons and the neutrons the protons and the neutrons are where the mass is if we're trying to affect the mass we need we need to play around with the protons and the neutrons now we can use the electrons as a stepping ladder to get there but having zero resistance in a ceramic Puck of you know ybco uh super conducting at liquid nitrogen temperature uh it looks pretty cool it it it it makes really nice you know camera candy it looks really nice to see it you know with all the gas and everything but it's not really uh anti-gravity and I would not want to be on a spacecraft that relied on Liquid Nitro pouring liquid nitrogen into the side walls in order to keep those superc conductors uh chilled yeah I think that my followup there is more of I guess what I was thinking is when you were talking about trying to get to the core right I thought well if we strip away the electrons is that a way where you can get to the core and I'm not you know nearly at the level you are with engineering but you know and this kind of goes into the next thing I was going to mention is that locki Martin has a patent for a coherent matter wave beam so I'm just trying to wonder if is there some kind of connection there or something I don't what are your thoughts in General on like to see that patent I haven't heard of it but uhe yeah s that over to you please send that over to me but yeah um coherent matter wave beam um that sounds like something that I'm working on right now yeah I love all these little connections between all this stuff but yeah I'll definitely send that over to you we found some pretty crazy lock Martin patents and it kind of goes to all the stuff we were talking about earlier in the beginning of the podcast here where we talk about how they keep this stuff hidden and and many cases I think it's just out there in plain sight like you were saying too where it is you gota look for it is this patent recent no it's from 2013 I believe if I recall correctly and that's the thing too some of this stuff's been out there decade you know or more right and it's like wow yeah the truth is like you're really you could throw it out there but thing is nobody's going to look for it you need to have somebody who's actually going to you know verify whether the stuff is real because there's a lot of patents out there that don't work there's a lot of free energy and uh magnet motor uh Concepts you know One battery charges another battery increase free energy we've heard all that crap you know for for decades now and people have been scammed out of millions of dollars um uh you know trying to invest in such stuff but just because you have a patent doesn't mean it's real that's one of the way other ways that they've been covering this stuff up um by loading the internet and uh the Mind space of humanity with with Just Junk um so a lot of these patents aren't real I'm very interested in a coherent matter uh W beam because I I believe that's real yeah I have reason to believe that coherent matter is the the key to anti-gravity yeah so and then you know for me it's like I I agree with you I don't know where the line is from talking to Salvador Pas which I may ask you about here in a second that you know I think that there is certain layer yes yes yeah oh yeah you got it there you go the hybrid CRA we're actually working on that uh that experiment as well that's another version yes yes we have a spin L over here and um and we have the microwave energy and the the high voltage yeah we're working on that experiment as well that's awesome yes because I think that on my to-do list some of the patents for sure it's like okay I don't know if I trust it out there if I'm talking to Salvador Pas there is C certainly a level where you have to prove conceptually whether or not it can work to the patent office um and I think that in order to even get that patent that you were just looking at there uh approved he had to get some uh like the Navy uh I don't know what the exact uh um position the person was but come in and step in and say oh no this is actually possible we can break the schwinger limit Etc um so when I see stuff that is like tied to the the Navy or the government or stuff that's tied like lockie Martin which are these huge defense contractors those are the ones where I'm like yeah these are the ones that I think that okay we should probably be taking a hard look at this right because these people don't mess around yeah the inertial mass reduction device as well and so you might be interested in this as well then because this is similar to what I was mentioning about the super conductivity is that salvator Pas uh believes that we don't need uh um meta materials in order to uh create room temperature superc conductivity that can be induced potentially through this high frequency gravitational uh vibration effect or potentially spin effect and he said that vibration worked better because spin would cause the I'm G to say this or maybe the atoms or something to rip apart or there'd be too much some kind of force there in general um so I don't know what are your thoughts on any of that or what's your thoughts on Salvador pasas and the patents in general uh my thoughts on Salvador pias is that he recently woke up and uh is enjoying the Limelight he wrote his paper on the Super Force and he's very excited to talk to anyone that will give him lots of attention um in terms of his work work uh he's put out lots of papers including this one and about different uh experiments that we can try um there's uh this is basically instead of magnetic field and microwaves it's high voltage static field and microwaves and heed he he uh predicts that neral mass modification is possible via that method as well um and if that's true um I'm game we're we're going to try it out cool and so here's another follow-up question on that is what do you think his inspiration was to write those patents I think you can get what I'm I'm getting at here right because he works with the Navy you think that they he was staring at crafts when he thought of those papers or you think he just came up with that pure inspirationally with no no motivation what are your thoughts I think he got some motivation for it somehow but um I don't know I can't really answer that for sure okay now I kind of want to change gears a little bit now going back to the whole UFO phenomenon cover up Etc um do you have any advice for Congress and the lawmakers or or what is your opinion perhaps on the UAP Congressional hearings that happened last summer you think that's a useful uh opport good use of time were you satisfied with the results and what would you do potentially to uh make it better if not um well I was at one of those hearings uh in person um I I think those were necessary they're 70 years overdue um I I think the uh the the Schumer rounds Amendment to the defense authorization act um had its uh teeth cut out of it um they should have had uh imminent domain you know the right to subpoena and the right to a uh disclosure p uh panel and all of that was removed uh by the powers that be um and uh I I would like to see another another amendment uh coming in this year that will give those teeth back and we'd have real disclosure of of the technology and what's been happening um I think people are distracted by so much other stuff going on uh just you got Wars going on over all all over the world we have uh somebody running for president who uh you know is being taken off the ballot in some states and then the current president can't remember what he had for breakfast um so people are you know very distracted from the stuff that are actually more mundane and more day-to-day but this story is the biggest it's the biggest story not in our lifetime it's the biggest story in a civilization um the research that we're doing here at Falcon space is is not just you know once in a lifetime opportunity this is a once in a civilization opportunity you don't really get chances to uh you know uh attempt heavier than air uh research ever again because once the R Brothers achieved it it was done you know and the same is going to go for anti-gravity at least in the open source so do you think there should be more uip hearings and if so what how would you like them to be framed uh yeah I would I would like there to be more uh UAP hearings um UFO hearings I would like you know the government to do a deep dive into it i' like Timber shett um to put together another uh um another law or something or whatever they got to do um and and try to get this uh this subject to the Forefront and um you know try to push something through Congress that actually has teeth on it so do you think that uh part of the government then is you know I think you mentioned that you believe there's a cover up so how do you view the landscape of the government that's covering up you think they're all covering it up do you think there's some people that want it out what's have you ever thought about how that might be playing out behind the scenes yeah there's a lot of uh government officials that wanted out especially newcomers um people that were recently elected people that were been in in government for 20 30 years they they like the status quo the status quo is what pays their mortgage um so so they're not going to be your friends the people that are friends of disclosure are the ones that are new to Congress um new to the story they don't they're not settled by any of the guilt or any of the blame of of what's been happening back there and uh those are the kind of people that are going to be your friends uh you know the friends of disclosure most probably what about in terms of the engineers and the scientists what do you think their views are um they're waiting for more data they're you know some of them are waiting for more data some of them are are ready to start right away but um for the most part I I think uh when we get to the threshold of proving that this stuff is real there's going to be an avalanche of um research going into this and um that that's going to make the equipment that associated with it very difficult to find and it's going to um probably the the industry as a whole I believe will become larger than GDP of the United States within within a like a decade or two um because it will take over so many different Industries we're talking about shipping airplanes uh space travel um it will it will change the world as we know it yeah what about stuff like microchips and and semi and uh semiconductors and stuff like that you think that that would get changed a lot by this as well or maybe already has been I don't know I'm not really sure about that I mean it's possible that uh that locky Martin patent that you talked about might be able to you know push lithography down to the one neter range or something like that but it's possible um it you know that this stuff is um is much more in its infancy than um than microchips are microchips are a technology that we recognize the potential of and we ran with it and look where we've come like we went from discovering it what was it 40 years ago that that the the semiconductor was discovered it wasn't that long ago that it was discovered and now we're making semiconductors that are two or three nanometers across they're just a few atoms that's how small they are and it's really and we're creating uh artificial intelligence using this technology it's insane how far we've come so the technology behind me the equipment behind me is like this stuff is from the um this stuff is from the uh from the 70s from the 80s this is old equipment I'm sure with with modern equipment with modern technology you'll be able to push the uh the umbrella of the of what can be achieved a lot farther than anything I can do here yeah uh so another thing I want to ask you about is uh the scientists that are not the ones that are potentially you know working with the dod and what have you what I call maybe the influencer scientists are out there what is your opinion on the public mainstream Academia science um all you talking about celebrity scientists like Neil degrass Tyson in general yeah or I think that I watched a video where you were talking to Lawrence Krauss I believe as well um you know and all I don't equate mitchu Kaku with them but I think that these are all scientists that show up on a lot of TV shows right out there what is your opinion on all them okay so my opin on my opinion on Lawrence Krauss um when I got there to ask him a question it really was what I intended to ask him was how big is the rock that he lives under and does he ever come out to breathe um because he is adamant 100% positive which doesn't exist in science that UFOs are not real while the government just had disclosure hearings saying they definitely are real we have we have live and dead bodies and we have 10 craft that work so this guy is completely off of his rocker now um which led me to the next thing that I was thinking is like there's there's either something mentally wrong with him which I don't think so because he seems to be pretty intelligent or there's a reason why he's doing that and the only thing I can think of is that he is getting he's on this stage to present the other side of the topic like uh Nick Pope was there to say yeah UFOs are real let's you know let's discuss it and uh Ethan Krauss is there to say the opposite so they had to you know search New York City and find somebody who would take on that opinion and Ethan Krauss you know was available that evening and uh you know he wanted the paycheck um so in my opinion Ethan Krauss is actually a uh uh debunker grifter he's trying to make money by debunking and there's a couple YouTube channels and uh uh people on Twitter that do similar things it's much easier to debunk things than it is to prove things you know uh there there's there's lots of people who you know are debunking that the Earth is round you know and the flat earthers they keep on debunking stuff it's it's a lot and people believe you too it's a lot easier to be believe believed when you say something is fake than when you say something is real and you know it all comes down to money and ego and dopamine just you know feeling that we get when we think that we're doing something good yeah I've gotta totally agree with you on the debunker thing I I think that there's two standards as well standard of proof is you have to build this mountain of evidence and proof and even then people people go I still want to see it right and then from the debunker standpoint it's like I'm going to poke one hole in your thing and I'm going to speculate and then that's debunked right um yes and I don't know like how do you how do you even combat that right um do you have any thoughts on that um you wait for them to die uh science does not progress from people like that uh science progresses you every time somebody like that dies um and people like that usually don't change their mind you know uh even when they're presented with the evidence to their face I actually read one uh UFO case uh that was pretty sad um there was a UFO flying alongside a uh an airplane and everyone was looking out the window except for one uh one psychiatrist there who refused to look out the window because he doesn't believe in UFOs wow yeah it was significant enough that they actually wrote it in a book but uh that that just got me thinking that there's there's a mental component to this as well it's not just uh that they're not just craft but they they change people to their core when they see stuff like that that they they they realize we're not the head honcho in the universe you know there's there's other life out there and there's Technology Way Beyond what we have and we're not fully in control um and uh it's it has an effect on people and some people just don't want to be affected they want to continue their nof five they want to be an accountant they don't want to think about this stuff yeah I think I've seen it firsthand I remember I was showing my parents my dad specifically a video that had some pretty anomalous stuff going on and I watched his head jerk away like it was almost like a reaction that psychology thing that you just mentioned that like a person who didn't want to look right it it almost reminded me of that and it freaked me out a little bit as well because it makes me think about the M the show Westworld where it's like it doesn't look like anything to me where some people are like just blinded to some stuff like that um and I think that's a little bit scary because to your point I think it tells us I'm curious as to your the uh thoughts on this thought experiment or whatever from sociology is that I think that a lot of people out there in general just they don't want stuff to be true and if it can't they can't deal with that concept at all and then it's kind of a question of like how you know it's not even a matter of disclosing that stuff's provable it's like changing people's opinion to the nature of reality itself like people have to wake up to the fact that like there if anti-gravity is real there's more to this reality than what we're perceiving and when people wake up to that then they'll all of a sudden see all the papers that are out there right that prove it and the scientific experiments and videos or whatever what's your thoughts on that yeah yeah they they they they live in willful um ignorance a lot of people a lot of people live live their life like that because you know they have their ninet to-5 they have their ritual they have their their their morning cup of Joe and uh they got to go on to work and they they can't be distracted by any of this stuff because it's too it's too fundamental to their being um it changes too much uh um yes they'll they'll have no problem being interested in uh uh Taylor Swift's latest song or uh the um you know Keeping Up with the Kardashians all their drama because it it fits in with their lifestyle it fits in what's with with what already there but when you start to tell them hey you know you're a descendant of an alien you know you're your GNA DNA's been uh manipulated and uh they're visiting us and they got craft that can go faster than speed of light that's kind of talk that just doesn't interest people they rather just go home and watch Jeopardy yeah on that same line and I think this is one of the last questions I want to ask though is that have you run into people at least I feel like I have I'm curious what your interactions have been I I've run into people that even in the UFO believer sphere when you start talking about faster and light travel that they start to check out you know and that's what scared me is because I think that people have this perception out there that the people who are threatened are the religious people in general but I find that it's not even necessarily people that are Orthodoxy religious it's it's even people that are believe that aliens are visiting that go oh no we can't have faster light travel and I'm going well how do you think they're visiting us right like I don't know have you run into any of that yes I have I I've I've run run into run into that um many times um and um how do we change that belief I mean how do we it just feels like such a hurdle to get over right keep proving it yeah just just just uh just building it that there's no other way to prove it and and sometimes even after you build it they still wouldn't believe in it even if they see it yeah I think that's the part that's scary right is that I think we're now in a post-truth world where even if the president comes out even if they wheel out a body even if they wheel out a craft they did they wheeled out two bodies in Mexico one of them had three eggs in its abdomen with a fetus inside the egg and um the next thing you know on Tik Tok is somebody made a cake that looked similar to it and then all of a sudden everybody's sting there go wait wasn't that just a cake that we just saw you're like okay makes me wonder you know are we living in the movie ocracy or you know is it I mean yeah it's really scary the world that we live in is really scary because um anyone nowadays with these uh AI tools can make fake images of anything and it it really um but the biggest the the biggest um value we can we can attain in this world today is um is truth because because there there's so much there's there's so the potential a lie and the potential to fake stuff is so big nowadays it's so easy to do that so um your reputation keeping your reputation uh being reputable being honest is uh is key to uh succeeding if you're not honest you're not you're not in line with the universe you're not going to succeed good advice okay Mark well I think this is a good spot to wrap it up so I was thinking anything that you want to plug uh if you want to plug your social media your companies or any your shop to anybody feel free this is your moment oh okay so uh check out the website for alternative propulsion that's alt propulsion alt propulsion tocom and sign up for a conference you can check out Falcons space at Falcons space.org and until next time live long and prosper thanks a lot Mark appreciate your time take care