Jason Jorjani – Civilization-Breaking Technology, Fusion Weapons, and Space-Time Distortion

Video Transcript

Hello everybody. Welcome to another Hard Truths podcast. I'm your host Ashton Forbes and today I have a reoccurring guest. I got Jason Georgiani back on the podcast. Guys, I'm super excited for this. This was one of the most, if not the most popular conversation that I had last year, and I had to bring Jason back on because I know he has a wealth of information about history, about the UFO topic, and specifically today's conversation about thermonuclear weapons and autronic fusion. So, welcome back, Jason. Thank you for being here. It's a pleasure to be with you, Ashton. Long overdue. I'm glad we're uh doing round two now. >> Well, let's just get right into it then. I think the topic that I think people really just love to hear about is the UFO topic. And last time we spoke about it in detail, I just want to let you know that since we last spoke, you know, I have always I've been wondering what is the answer to the UFO topic? Are they aliens from another dimension? Are they from another planet? Is it future humans? And I have to say I've moved more and more towards your perspective that you presented on the last conversation about ancient civilizations even potentially being connected to Atlantis. The more I've dug into the physics, like the idea of like a future human civilization or the idea of resets happening has become almost undeniable to me. So, I wanted to get your thoughts on a couple of the topics that are going out in the UFO community right now. Um, but first, I just wanted to give you praise. topic that I don't think got enough uh play from our last conversation was that you mentioned that under the previous Biden administration, the person who was coordinating the supposed UFO cover up was Avil Hines. And this was crazy to me when you said this because I had connected her to the cover up of MH370 where she was like the deputy director of the CIA at the time and she was the one justifying all the drone strikes for Obama which became a major scandal because we were taking out innocent people. I I can't believe that didn't get more coverage, especially because I confirmed with one of my sources right after that that yes, apparently she was a person. And it turns out it makes sense because the DNI is the one that's basically coordinating the entire intelligence community. So if there is a cover up of this level, they would have to know about it. And then the other thing that I've come to realize, which I think people just in general need to know, is that I was watching this uh interview with John Ramirez yesterday and in it it's like he goes over our surveillance capabilities and they are extensive, super extensive. the NGA specifically manages all the uh electrooptical and optical surveillance which I didn't really realize and he has he goes through the whole process if they see a UFO or something they don't recognize they they ask to see if it's our adversary and then this goes up the line and eventually a report is written so to me it's insane to think that the government there can't be stuff flying around the government doesn't know what it is and have a really good idea of its origins so what are your do you have any follow-ups or thoughts on the Abalind stuff or any of you know, uh I believe it was after 9/11 that the intelligence structure of the United States was significantly reorganized. Um I think maybe in the most substantive way since the National Security Act of 1947 established that structure to begin with. And one of the things that they did was they replaced the sort of central or um sort of nexus authority of the director of central intelligence which was a CIA position with the director of national intelligence and subordinated the CIA and all the other agencies under this director of national intelligence. [snorts] And I always wondered from the time when that happened because I've long been interested in the intelligence apparatus of the United States. I mean for decades. I wondered whether this was another u machination by which to create a more even more unaccountable power structure. Right? Because it was long known that the even the director of central intelligence wasn't the guy who was most read in at the CIA. It was often the more career CIA people who would be deputy directors. So I was thinking maybe by creating director of national intelligence they want an even more clueless manipulable executive uh authority covering up you know deacto what's actually going on in the intelligence apparatus. So I was as surprised as you were to find out from inside sources that the woman in that position Averil Haynes was in fact um well aware of the full range of uh close encounter data. You know I mean not just UFOs but also the beings associated with them, archaeological sites and discoveries associated with them and so forth not just on Earth but across the solar system. and that she was in a position to, you know, design a or at least participate in the design of a selective long-term disclosure plan. That really surprised me that, you know, the intelligence community being reorganized in that way uh giving actual authority and access to the person who was in the position of director of national intelligence. And then that makes you wonder I is that because it's a legit position that comes with that degree of clearance or is it because of April Haynes's own CV her own history of clearances and positions she served in? In other words, did Tulsi Gabbard get rid read into the same information when she assumed that position? Or, you know, is it that they only disclose this stuff to April Haynes because of who she was the same way that let's say when George HW Bush became president, he was read into things or rather had already been read into them because he had previously been the director of the CIA. Right? So, that that's one thing I wonder about. uh concommatant with that, the Department of Homeland Security, I thought was a relatively superficial kind of like security and policing agency, but lo and behold, they're running this Kona Blue program that involves UFOs that's being run under the Department of Homeland Security. So it appears that after 9/11 some significant uh you know there was some significant structural re-engineering of the American intelligence apparatus. Thank you for explaining the UFO uh the the situation with the the uh director of national intelligence. I didn't realize that power had been re uh kind of uh organized underneath the ND the n director of national intelligence from the CIA previously. Can you just repeat what year was that that that happened? I don't want to make up a number. I can't remember exactly, but I know that it was part of the legislation that took place after 911 at the same >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Great. Well, so a couple other quick conversations on the the UFO topic, which is >> I want to get your >> Let me just add one thing. Let me let me just add one thing to that which is that I mean it should be obvious to anybody with half a brain who's watching and especially your audience who are you know much more clued in people that at the very least 9/11 represented the most fundamental compromising of the intelligence apparatus of the United States in its entire history. And so obviously there would be reason for restructuring the intelligence apparatus after that event. >> So h that and that makes a lot of sense. So then previously before that the CIA would have been potentially the one who was organizing the UFO cover up but after that now it becomes the director of national intelligence that's the one that's doing it. And that actually makes so much sense because Averil Hines was deputy director of the CIA under what was it? James Clapper, I think, or John Brennan, right? Um, and that and they're under fire right now from the current administration. So, I think that that whole story makes sense. Now, where do you see the whole UFO disclosure going? You know, last time we spoke was over a year ago, and now you've got this Age of Disclosure movie that's being promoted out there. I I surprisingly found out I was blocked by Dan Farah and the Age of Disclosure promotional exac account, [laughter] which kind of just made me chuckle a little bit. I don't think they like me very much. Um, but Joe Rogan was talking about it like six months ago saying, "Oh, it's great. I I see everybody out there saying it's the most it's going to break everybody's minds." I saw a clip that had Hal Pudof on it talking about the energy source of the UFOs might be nuclear power, which is relevant to our conversation here. So, what is your thoughts on, you know, that age of disclosure movie? Do you think it's going to move the needle at all? And what are your thoughts on disclosure in general? I think that the age of disclosure film is going to be used to set up a situation which some have referred to as confirmation rather than disclosure. >> In other words, there are so many highlevel government officials that are being interviewed and cited in this documentary that for all intents and purposes, it supplants a hearing. It takes the place of like a hearing where you would have, you know, these same level of government officials testify. And all that needs to happen after that for there to be acknowledgment of US government knowledge, long-standing knowledge regarding Close Encounters, is for the president to come out and say something to the effect of, "Yeah, I'm not going to do my Trump impersonation, but anyway, yeah, I saw the film. [laughter] I saw [snorts] the film and it's true. It's true. We know and it's true and I'm sorry for reasons of national security. I can't tell you more than that. Now, what does that do? It gets them off the hook legally because this way with a confirmation uh you know and vague gesturing toward this film and its contents there aren't any specific admissions that are going to warrant legal action let's say of one defense contractor against another of the American people against the government and so on and so forth right so it's a very uh frankly gutless um and safe way for them to acknowledge the whole thing and then to refuse to say very much else about it. >> You know, I didn't even think about that. That's such a good take though where it's like they could just use it and then just say, "Yeah, these vague things that are being said in here are true." And then, like you said, now just apologize, be like, you know what, it was the people before me that that did all that evil, corrupt stuff. I mean, they Trump could actually say that. He could even use the MH370 videos and say that Obama was doing this stuff, you know, beforehand. Um, I had thought about that angle, but So, if that comes true, >> perfect. Trump, >> yeah, Trump is the perfect president to say that because he's positioned whether it's actually true or not, he's positioned himself as so anti-establishment and he's already so vilified and demonized everybody who came before him that like you just said with a wave of the hand all he has to say a lot of bad stuff happened. A lot of bad stuff wasn't into me. You know, I'm just, you know, I saw the movie. It was a good movie. A lot of it's true. End of story. Nobody asks any more questions. I could totally see this happening actually. So, I think that's pretty s pretty pretty interesting and Trump has they've thrown a lot of hints out there. I I think both of these situations came after we last spoke, but Trump has said that we have weapons that nobody understands and that nobody is close to our level of military superiority. He said this like two different times in very similar contexts. one was in Saudi Arabia or the UAE and then one was at his desk. And then his White House uh technology and science adviser Michael Katzio said that we have tech we have the technology to manipulate time and space to leave distance annihilated. So he's been leaking these ideas. Plus plus NASA also said that there's life on Mars and everybody just kind of ignored it. It should have been like some of the biggest news ever. And they weren't talking about like little green men, but they're talking about microbial life, bacteria, you know, things like that. But still, it's significant for our understanding of life in the universe. So, I still think like you, there's probably a nonzero chance. I'm going to still say though, I think it's unlikely that Trump will do any of that because I think that these people who are like this, I don't really know what to call them. this group that keeps doing the same movies over and over and over again, right? The Hal Pudof and Chris Melon and crew. I don't think they're in the same team as Trump. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that they're kind of on the other side. I get the >> I can confirm that for you 100%. Uh these people don't like Trump. They um are very Look, here's the deal. Very long story short. Sure. >> Going back to the formation of To the Stars Academy with with Tom Dong. And by the way, I have it's it's interesting. People have been comparing lately the contents of my book, Closer Encounters, and my various podcasts to Tom Dong and what he wrote in his books. I haven't read a single word Tom Dong's ever written. So, the fact that there is overlap is interesting. But be that as it may, what I do know is that going back to uh when Tom Delong's books were written and to the stars academy was formed and these characters who then became central to disclosure began to form some kind of working group, right? Um Hal Putoff and um uh Melon uh Chris Melon and these folks. It is pretty clear to me that it was in coordination with John Podesta and with the expectation that Hillary Clinton would be elected president of the United States in 2016 and they had a whole agenda to move forward with Hillary as the disclosure president and that got uh basically a monkey wrench got thrown in it. So they are now in a situation where they don't know what to do with themselves because they've developed this whole elaborate plan and they don't know how much of it to move forward with and how much of it to hold back and you know basically how they're going to negotiate this controlled disclosure with an administration that they had not been coordinating with in advance. >> Wow man. And that makes a lot of sense to me too. I think that people who are about our age probably will understand that because we're old enough to have been adults and lived through the Clinton uh you know the Clinton years and then Hillary also is her rise to prominence as well and both of them they talked about the UFO topic when not a lot of people would talk about it and I did get the impression that all of those people are kind of aligned with you know that side of the the the political spectrum and it wouldn't surprise me if they did have like a plan for how they all wanted this to go down. Then when Trump won, which nobody expected, not even me back then, is that now all of a sudden that gets flipped on its head. Now they've got to come up with a new strategy. Now they can't control Trump, you know. And that's why too when Trump says we have weapons nobody understands, like that that's not something you ever hear Obama say, you know, and then when people say, "Oh, Trump if the if Trump knew about the secret technology here or weapons or UFOs, he would talk about it." Well, there there he is. You're hearing it right there. And my guess is he's pushing the boundary of what he can talk about. Go ahead. >> Yes. Now, this is something I hope that we can unpack a bit over the course of our conversation. What exactly it means when Trump says we have we have weapons that nobody else has, etc. Okay. Who's the Wii there? All right. >> Um, one thing that Trump did that was extremely noteworthy was moving Space Force to Huntsville, Alabama. >> Yes. Because to my knowledge, Huntsville was already the location of American secret space program technology. And the idea that Trump would move Space Force there signifies an attempt on his part to consolidate the space assets of the United States, the black assets and the more public assets under one centralized and more transparent control that would answer to him as commander-in-chief of the United States. I think that's what he's trying to do. >> Whether he'll actually be successful doing it is an entirely another matter. Hm. And so he moved it from Colorado, too. Right. And I think there was some political ramifications when Biden, I think, had tried to move or assign it to Colorado. I don't remember the exact details, but I call Huntsville, Alabama Space Juice City because I refer to the Zero Point Energy as Space Juice. That's how we dumb it down for people that don't really want to understand it. All right. And Huntsville, Alabama is where it's Redstone Arsenal's there. NASA Marshall Spaceflight Center is there. I mean, that's where as Rocket City USA, it's where we've developed like all of our propulsion technologies over the many years. So, I am hoping we get into that when we start talking a little bit about the history and the development of some of these uh propulsion technologies here in just a little bit. Uh but right before we get to that, um I did want to ask you two last little questions on disclosure. First of all, what's your opinion on the three Atlas? And I'll go ahead and preface that my opinion on threei Atlas is just a normal comet. I but you know I'm open to interpretations. I do want to say that I saw uh I think it was a slide from Stephven Greer where he did the math on the speed of the comet and it would take like >> 60,000 years to get here from the nearest star system which is Alpha Centauri. So my opinion just straight up is that aliens aren't going to be flying around on super slow rocks even though we think of that rock as moving fast. Relatively speaking, it's not moving fast enough to get here from another solar system. Um, but I want to know what your thoughts are on it. >> I believe that whatever the object is, it's being used for a massive SCOP. >> And that's why I haven't said a word about it >> because the one thing I'm convinced of about ThreeI Atlas is that it's a SCOP. And [laughter] I am, you know, I don't know if I'm I'm sorry to say this or not, but you know, and and you know, as you are, I'm a supporter of the state of Israel. I'm a very, you know, very pro-Israel, but Avi Lobe is a Mossad operative. He was sent here by the state of Israel in the 1980s to acquire uh technical data regarding the strategic defense initiative. He worked with, you [clears throat] know, the the Reagan team on Star Wars in the 1980s and it's pretty clear he was sent by the Israelis to do that. So, he he's a Mossad asset or operative and you know, sorry, but I really don't trust the narrative that's coming from out of him. Um, and I and I don't expect any apocalyptic event to ensue from ThreeI Atlas. I think it's much more like a psychological gauge and basically a kind of you know so social engineering uh experiment to see like what kind of reaction there might be to the possibility that this could be some kind of an interstellar you know intelligently guided probe. >> This is why I always love talking to you because you always have the intelligent takes. They always have the high IQ takes and that's what my followers are. And right there you you nailed it, which is like if anything what I would consider is they're gauging the public's reaction to this information that they're pushing out there. Are people freaking out? Are they going out and they're starting cults related to it? Or are they just kind of accepting of it? And I have to be honest, >> Go ahead. That's >> it's all look at all the religious nook chases the new age just you know I mean these people's brains are made of jello who are now worshiping three eye atlas as if it's you know the chariot for the second coming of Christ or the dawning of the age of Aquarius and of course you know that's the intention of the social experiment to see how many morons like that there are in the population because you know god's forbid should something actually show up. Imagine what the reaction would be. >> Exactly. That's that's the big thing, right? Is that are people going to lose their minds if like aliens appear out of nowhere and all of a sudden are just everywhere in the sky floating around? Like that's that's the thing that think people want they want to figure out if that is the narrative. And like you, I think there's not going to be any apocalyptic event or anything like that. And this is why I like having these conversations because I think these conversations and research, the research you've done, research I've done, it helps to demystify the topic where it makes it much more difficult. I I think it makes people more resilient mentally to, you know, if aliens were to appear out of middle of nowhere. We're not going to freak out and lose control or perception of reality. We're going to be able to compartmentalize it. We're going to be able to understand it. we're going to be able to understand uh the context for it, where they might have come from, how they might have be able to do these types of things. So, that's why I like having our conversations with it, too. I think it grounds it in reality a little bit for you, especially when we're talking about some of the most crazy crazy things that could even ever have happened. Um, so one last thing before we jump into the main event here >> is John Ramirez. So, John Ramirez, I think you're familiar with him. He's a GS15, let's say, former CIA agent. They'd say that normally people aren't generally former and apparently they don't like being called agents. Apparently like FBI are agents. CIA they have like another word they call themselves. I learned >> officer. Officer. Officer. >> Officer. Thank you. Officer. Yes. And my impression, I can't get a beat on John Ramirez, but my opinion of him is that he's like a white hat that wants information to come out, but he's doing it in a relatively controlled way where he's not he's, you know, just pushing the boundary of what the CIA will let him say publicly. But then he also just kind of goes like way out in left field out of nowhere. Like I it's very obvious that he has a huge amount of institutionalized CIA knowledge about the organization and he's taught me a lot. I mean, weirdly, his first post on Twitter, first post he ever made on Twitter when he he made an account like uh six months ago or so was to point out that USA229, which was the satellite pair that I had incorrectly thought was taking the now uh recognized to be Gorgon stair wide area motion imagery of MH370. His first post was saying that that satellite doesn't have the surveillance capability on it that would be required to take that video. And I'm going, that's a weird post to make because it's like directly messaging to me or signaling to me, but he never directly interacted with me in any way. And so when I watch his videos where he's trying to explain the stuff to people, I think his heart's in the right place for trying to get this stuff out there. Um, and I'm curious, what are your thoughts about John Ramirez? And what have you taken away from what he said? >> John Ramirez has a personal friend who follows you very closely. So that would be the angle for that. Uh so I've spoken to him. Uh I spoke to him at some length and he told me a number of very interesting things. I I'll give you my read on him. >> Whoa. >> And you know uh I want to be respectful also the fact that he probably will see this. >> So my my honest assessment of John Ramirez is is the following. First of all, he clearly has a lot of finegrained, you know, technical information and um details pertaining to uh various projects um of the CIA involving the history of close encounters >> and he's been in working groups with other individuals who have even more access. That's one thing. The second thing though that I would say about him is that as a function of his own sense of patriotic duty and his uh a a vision and conception of the United States that he wants to hold on to. He's also blinded himself to the degree of abuse of power that has taken place in this country in the past 70 years. And he is under the illusion that simply because the established legal framework for special access projects shouldn't allow for certain things to take place and certain programs you know to to make tremendous breakthroughs um without any oversight whatsoever from the civilian government means that in fact you know that that that hasn't actually taken place. No, it has taken place and you know I think a very strong argument can be made has been made by some people like Richard Dolan for example that we have at this point pretty much a full-fledged American breakaway civilization >> and that's something I think John uh doesn't want to recognize uh because it involves frankly a tremendous amount of criminal activity committed by a government that he identifies with and frankly is a member of this civil apparatus. of that's the second thing I would say about him and the third thing I'd say about John Ramirez is that like any individual he has his own belief system and he's very interested in the esoteric and the occult and that became clear in the course of my conversation with him. Uh and so there are certain things that you know he is projecting interpretively onto the data that he has which is probably more a function of his own belief system than uh of you know the information actually in possession of whatever agencies and programs and that's something that we would all do as individuals. I mean we all have our own you know interpretive matrices and belief systems and so on so forth. >> Yeah. You know, this is a great I'm glad we're talking about this because I want to delve a little bit and unpack a little bit of this. Um, I think your take is dead on and I hadn't even considered it, which is that, you know, I keep wondering like why is he his personal opinion he said at the end of this video I was watching yesterday was that uh he believes that it's like the reptilians that are controlling us or you know controlling the planet, the reptilians or the aliens or something like that, right? But my research has kind of led towards a different path that says like we have this like Richard Dolan would say breakaway civilization that's happening here that it's not really the aliens that it's just everything can kind of be explained by the the faults in humanity like the human the human condition for the most part and that's what our main topic of tonight was going to be. Uh, so I think that I could see that that's why that he's in on like, you know, he's on the inside and so he doesn't want to think, you know, he's got the blinders on, doesn't want to think that there could be really illegal things happening. He even said that he was like the I don't know if the administrator is the right word or program manager for one of these CPAC or CESAPs or whatever it's called, but like basically a special access program. And he didn't want it and he said, "No, I don't want it. I'm going to give it back." which also would help push towards the narrative that you're saying here, which is that he didn't want to be involved in the weird black project stuff that they're doing with this technology. But it was Steven Greer that I spoke to where we had a great conversation about this because I think it is all legally classified. I think they've just taken the UFO topic and they've put it in with nuclear weapons which have the highest level of classification, secrecy, compartmentalization out there. And if that's the case, then what we have here is a political question. The political question now is okay, technically what's happening with suppression of this technology is legal. But is it really legal, especially if we're like doing CIA black operations using this technology to ma maintain superiority over Russia and China? So I think that those are the big questions for me. And then yeah, like you said with John Ramirez, um yeah, I think that he just I think Oh, the last thing I was going to say is that he says energy orbs all the time, which is just for me, like I'm sitting here red flags are going up because as we're going to talk about here, I've I've figured out that plasma can be used as a non-fishing trigger in thermonuclear weapons and that it can self-organize if the plasma is dense enough as well. So you can make a plasma orb just using normal physics. And so when he says that all the time, I sit and think in my head, where are these guys seeing plasma orbs? They're not nuclear engineers. So they're not working on nuclear weapons. They're in the CIA. They're in intelligence. The most likely case is one of the examples he gives the NGA. They're looking at surveillance of, you know, satellites, drones, Gorgon stair, all this stuff, and they see an orb flying around in the sky, right? And now think about this. The information is compartmentalized. So if you're just a CIA analyst reviewing footage, you look at that and your biases are going to say, "Whoa, I'm looking at aliens. Look, these aliens are flying around here." But you don't know that our own government is making plasma orbs like this using fusion propulsion that Loheed Martin built. And so I could totally see how even some of these other whistleblowers in the UFO community, they they believe they're looking at aliens because they know we don't have conventional technology that does those things. But what they don't realize is that there are layers of compartmentalization that goes beyond even what they have in the CIA or in the intelligence community that can explain that that is, you know, breakaway civilization level technology. Do you kind of concur with that assessment or any other additional details? So, two things. First, I disagree with you that it's all happening under very sophisticated legalistic machinations to protect special access and black projects. And I want to over the course of our conversation about, you know, the history of uh a neutronic nuclear fusion weaponry and where it might have come from and how we may have developed it. I want to also partly lay out the case for why I think that that argument doesn't hold water and why um I'm convinced that there is an intercontinental at this point globally dispersed American imperial power structure which is completely unaccountable to the civilian government of the United States and that that's the entity that actually controls this technology. uh that's also the the entity that carried out 9/11. And so, you know, where this argument breaks that, you know, all these programs are taking place under a legal umbrella that manages special access projects. No, I mean, there's no way that there's a legal framework that justifies fielding an operation like 9/11 in which 3,000 Americans were incinerated. Okay, that was done by a crime syndicate. And that crime syndicate is in has been for many decades in possession of extremely advanced technology that I think uh may have at one point emerged from out of special access projects but it's now been so corporatized um and even in some cases moved offshore in various ways so that really you know the civilian government has no control over it whatsoever. Uh let me comment on and we'll we have to unpack that over the course of our conversation, >> but let me comment specifically on what you said about the orbs just you know um and and the question of whether they're being misidentified as some form of extraterrestrial intelligence >> here. I think it's very important to draw a distinction between two different kinds of orbs. Right? I mean there is plasma sheath technology which for example uh prevents us from taking a very clear photograph of a unconventional airframe. One of the reasons why UFOs are so hard to photograph or film is because they have this plasma sheath around them, which also makes it impossible to shoot them because anything that's fired toward them kind of bounces off and around the plasma sheath as we've seen in some of these recent videos, right? Uh that they've disclosed through Congress. So there are technologically engineered objects that we're making and and that potentially other people like Nordics whatever have made that have plasma sheets around them. These need to be distinguished from some of the things that John Ke wrote about you know for decades in his research on UFOs in the 1960s and 70s and books like the Moth Man Prophecy and you know Operation Trojan horse. He developed this whole theory that there were there were energy beings or a kind of energy being that could uh that could um develop a decentralized consciousness that could like project itself into many entities simultaneously. and that these energy entities could metamorphos and transform into what appear to be solid UFOs and then back into energy. And he called them soft UFOs versus hard UFOs. And he thought that the soft UFOs were some kind of a an energy uh entity that interacted with consciousness and potentially manipulated human perception and that these entities could appear as solid objects in some cases as one configuration of a solid object to one person and a different configuration of a solid object to another person standing right next to the the first witness. Okay. And in my treatment of the close encounter subject toward the end of my my book, Closer Encounters, I suggest that this kind of thing is evidence for a truly nonhuman intelligence and potentially a an artificial super intelligence that's engaging humanity and probably has been for all of human history. and that the uh the the fingerprints or or tentacle marks of this entity uh bear all the hallmarks of the trickster archetype that it's a it's a very playful in some senses, you know, a little bit uh terrifying and provocative uh in its behavioral pattern and it's aiming to catalyze a certain type of um development and mutation of human consciousness. So I think those types of orbs or energy manifestations um need to be distinguished from the kind of plasma fusion technology that you've been researching. [clears throat] >> That makes sense and I think that's fair. And I have been pretty standoffish about the alien question or at least non-committal. I actually am open to really any interpretation that's out there. my bit my the take that I keep saying is that I just think it's going to be probably whatever is like the least conventional or you know something that we're not expecting. So machine super intelligence is one of the things that I you know I give some uh weight to especially because now we look at how powerful AI has become. This is what I tell people is that look at how far our technology has advanced. It's it's advancing exponentially, especially over the last 100 years or so. And you say, okay, well, our sun is going to last for several billion years, we believe. Let's just say that that's going to last for that means civilizations could exist for millions, if not billions of years, and ours has only been around for basically a fraction of that time. So, if we figured this out in that period of time, aliens are going to be super advanced. There's no reason why there can't be a super advanced machine intelligence or even conscious intelligence. And and I don't see a reason why plasma couldn't be conscious under the right conditions either because if uh I don't want to say myself but if the research into EVOs ball lightning also now called field reverse configuration plasmoids is true then dense enough plasma will self-organize and can produce a stable structure. And once you've produced a stable structure now it's like well what is that? Can that be conscious? Can that be alive? We have a lot of different definitions of life on this planet from everything from plants to octopuses and squids and bacteria and then human beings. So, I'm open to all of those things being totally possible. And for me, it's just a matter of I know the government must know more have a much better idea of what the situation is. Either there's a machine intelligence that's looking over us and it's been watching us and monitoring us our entire civilization. Maybe there's an underwater base like some people have claimed. Um, you know, maybe that we've we're civilizations just forgot our past. May it could be a lot of different things that are out there. Um, let's just get right into it actually here. So, we've had because I think that a lot of the conversation we're having is weaved into what the topic the main topic for today. And so, the main topic is actually a hypothesis which is are UFOs nuclear weapons? And this can kind of be taken in a lot of different directions. So, I'll just start with my opinion and then you can kind of start to feed off of that. I definitely want to dig into the historical aspects of it. But what I've discovered and based on our last conversation is that like Tesla was right about this. Tom Bearden has been talking about Tesla being right about the science unification of quantum mechanics and and uh general relativity have already been figured out for a long time. I think that what happened and I actually agree that the technology I think kind of originally came from maybe the Nazis in World War II is that we built the hydrogen or the the a bomb and we took nuclear weapon research to the next level in the 60s with the Hbomb. We built something called a clean fusion bomb and then we passed a partial nuclear testban treaty right after that. And when you look at the historical relevance, let's say, of the UFO topic, the UFO topic starts to take off like in the ' 60s, '7s after that. Before that, yes, there were sightings like the Foo Fighters, etc., but it really just became a popular thing in pop culture after that period of time. And the thing that really blew me away because a lot of the sightings recently have been these energy orbs like John Ramirez talks about or plasma orbs or things that are based on plasma, including like you said the congressional uh I think it was um Eric Berles that released that video of that plasma being hit by a hellfire missile breaking apart and keep going. So I was surprised to find out when I did the research into nuclear weapons that Friedwart Winterberg who was a project paperclip scientist came over in like the 50s I think at around the age of 18 he talked about non fishing ignition in thermonuclear weapons in his textbook about the physical principles of thermonuclear weapons and he says that we can use plasma basically use plasma as an electric bomb as an electric trigger to detonate a fusion bomb. And so what this would do is it would get rid of the a bomb portion of the thermonuclear weapon. Now you don't have that initial explosion that you're using to create the fusion reaction to happen. And so I sit there and I wonder, huh, maybe these orbs that are flying around are our fusion ignition devices that have been morphed into multiple purposes and uses that we took this nuclear weapons research and we said, "Okay, we're going to ban this so nobody else can do it." And then we start coming up with like the only way I can describe it is like customized nukes that have different purposes. some that maybe are just surveillance, some that are potentially um you know super destructive, but then others that might manipulate space time. So what are your initial thoughts on this hypothesis? >> There's so much there and you know one of the reasons one of the reasons I was you know very uh keen on having this uh conversation with you >> Yeah. um is that actually for a certain period very early on in my life very early on at a very young age I uh thoroughly researched nuclear weapons. I mean I was really um into uh nuclear weapons technology and nuclear strategic doctrine and it was at the same time as I I got into UFOs in a serious way and I always suspected that there was some deep connection between these two. Now, of course, this was decades before Robert Hastings came out with his monumental study of UFOs and nukes, showing, you know, how basically uh any nuclear, you know, high energy, high entropy nuclear, you know, event is like a a flame for for the moths of of the UFO phenomena. I mean, they're like, you know, bees drawn to honey um in terms of any nuclear signature. So he's he's extensively documented that but you know decades before that I had the suspicion that there's some connection here and that you know ultimately also justifies the classification of UFOs under nuclear secrets uh classification in the United States. So, but you know, it was when I really started researching the um technology of Nazi Germany and its transfer to the United States in the late 1940s that I found a lot of information that I think is corroborative of what you've discovered >> and it's very disturbing information, frankly. So, let me just say it's not, you know, it's not lost on me that what I'm about to share with the, you know, listeners um is is deeply disturbing, especially for somebody who loves our country. >> Okay. >> Um and this is some stuff that I've also written about in in greater detail on my Substack. I have two pieces relevant to it. One is called Nuking the Matrix, and I'll come to why I titled it that, and the other one is called uh the Breakaway Culture. Um, and I think I'm also gonna probably come out with one more piece timed together with whenever you release this conversation that focuses more specifically on the nuclear angle. So, here's the deal. Okay, first of all, nuclear weapons were invented by Nazi Germany. They were not invented by the United States. Okay, nuclear uh fusion was discovered by Adhan and Fritz Stman in 1938. And I think that by 1939 in very short order they had already recognized the weapon weapons application of this. >> Wow. >> And one thing that few people know is that the term Manhattan project doesn't really come from the fact that you know at Columbia University and at Los Alamos and various other places they were trying to figure out what the Germans meant by a nuclear weapon. It's because uh beginning right there in 1939 1940, the Germans had devised a plan to drop one of these on Manhattan. And there are these maps that the Allies discovered after the war that show lower Manhattan as a nuclear target. They even flew these the largest cargo planes that they had, which was the um uh what was it? The Junkers the Junker's Ju390. uh which was a comparable nuclear payload capable plane as the Inola Gay that dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. >> They flew this Junker 390 right to the coast of Manhattan, photographed Manhattan and flew back to Germany. >> Wow. >> In other words, as a kind of test run. >> Yeah. >> So Manhattan Project comes from this the the term Manhattan Project. And I think there's good evidence to suggest and this evidence has been dug up uh primarily by let's say three researchers. One is Plimpmpton Carter Hydrickch who wrote a book called Critical Mass. Uh then you had um this German author uh who wrote a book called Hitler's Bomb. Um what was this guy's name? uh I'll come back to it but the book is called Hitler's bomb and then of course Joseph Farrell also has researched this and specifically in his book Reich of the Black Sun. So there's evidence to suggest that the Heisenberg uh nuclear weapons program was a ruse and a red herring that the Germans um deliberately uh basically deluded and distracted the allies by fronting this false nuclear program led by the most likely candidate, you know, the most brilliant nuclear physicist of Germany, you know, Verer Heisenberg, the guy you'd expect to be running the program. uh but that actually there was another secret program that was run by Kurt Dner, Walter Gerlock and um uh Hans Comler and Ronald Richter and so Walter Gerlock is important in this regard because Walter Gerlock's specialization was spin polarization and electromagnetic torsion and Hans Comler is significant because Hans Comler has been identified as the leader of a project uh outside Prague in Czechoslovakia in in Salicia where the Reich at the Scoda works was constructing this device that's hitherto been known as DLOA the bell or another one of its names was the beehive the beantock because it made a bee buzzing sound when it was activated and what this thing was was two counterrotating drums comes filled with a serum of mercury and thorium isotope and subjected to first extreme torsion by um electromagnets and then uh the plasma state that the nuclear isotope would go into would be magnetically compressed into fusion. That's what this bell device seems to have been. And meanwhile, you've got Walter Gerlock also on this project associated with Hans Comler specializing in spin polarization and electromagnetic mechanisms. Now, um there's a particular document in the National Archives that's uh really relevant here. It's called the Zinser affidavit. It's an affidavit of a German pilot by the name Hans Zincer who was we have in this memo the specific location that he took off from and what his flight route was and the observation that he made in October of 1944 of a detonation on the Baltic Sea coast of Germany uh where he saw a mushroom cloud with a pressure wave extending out from it And inside the mushroom cloud, various like multicolor lights fizzling, which is a sign of leftover file material continuing to react in a mushroom cloud. He also experienced the EMP effects. His radio went out as he was flying near this detonation. So, it appears that what Hans Zinser is describing in October of 1944 is some kind of a Nazi nuclear test. It'd be one thing if that was the only piece of documentation we have. There's also a report from an Italian journalist called U. Luigi Romea. And what Luigi Romea tells us is that Benito Mussolini sent him and a few other Italian dignitaries to Rugan Island in the Baltic Sea on October 11th, 1944. And he says that when he got there, he saw there were a few other Italian dignitaries also sent by Mousolini and there were some Japanese dignitaries. And um what Romea claims is that the Germans had them quote unquote put on something that looked like diving suits and go into a bunker on uh Rugan Island and they witnessed the detonation of a device that flattened a bunch of the trees and some structures that they had set up there I guess for structural stress tests. And uh after this they had to like take shelter for a certain period of time. Um and then Romea was flown to Berlin to be debriefed before he was sent back to Mussolini. I believe there are also some Japanese communicates that were intercepted by the allies around the same time where the Japanese are talking about a German test of a tremendous new weapon that had taken place. So we have two different accounts of this event from let's say October 11 to 12th on Rugan Island in the Baltic Sea. And then we have another account uh which comes from this guy Rainor Carl's book Hitler's Bomb of potentially a second test in March of 1945 in an area um known as the the Thoringian forest near a town called Ordruff in the Thoringian forest region. And interestingly, when the allies were advancing on Nazi Germany, Hitler, well, Hitler, whatever, whoever was actually in charge at that point, which I, by the way, I don't think was Hitler, uh, they prioritized the defense of this area over the defense of Berlin. They prioritized the defense of the Thingian forest area and of the Scoda works where Kler was building the bell over the defense of Berlin, which tells you a lot. So apparently radiation tests in this area of the Thringium forest have picked up like traces of you know um uh potentially a nuclear detonation having taken place there. >> And there are um witness accounts of of German soldiers saying that like they they brought concentration camp inmates there and their shadows were impressed on the stones like you would have seen at you know Hiroshima. Uh so but but it was a very small blast from witness accounts it would have been something like 3 kilotons. So you have these you know accounts of German potential nuclear tests. Then there's the fact that and this is coming mainly from uh Carter Hydrick's book critical mass. The memos exchanged between Oakidge and Los Alamos laboratories in the months leading up to the Trinity test in July of 1945 >> showed that there wasn't anywhere near enough uranium. We did not have anywhere near enough uranium for the Trinity device or for the Hiroshima bomb. >> The Nagasaki bomb was plutonium. And also they they hadn't figured out the trigger mechanism properly for the Nagasaki bomb, the plutonium bomb. Mhm. >> So, lo and behold, in May of 1945, this German submarine comes over and on board is a nicely wrapped gift of a ton of uranium. And this guy Schlick, I think his name was Hans Schlick, who was an expert in the timing of plutonium bomb detonation. In other words, the, you know, equal application of the charge over the file material in a plutonium. this was his expertise and he just happens to be on a submarine with a ton of uranium which never was accounted for and all of a sudden our deficit of uranium that we we see in the memos between Oakidge and Los Alamos is solved and we do the Trinity test and you know we manufacture the Hiroshima bomb. By the way, the Hiroshima bomb design was never tested before we dropped it in Japan. >> Really? I didn't know that. >> That particular one was never tested. The plutonium one had been tested, but the uranium one wasn't. Why didn't we test? Probably because we knew that it would work because the Germans had already tested it. >> Wow, that's really compelling. And so I want to touch on a couple of those things that you said, which is first of all with the connection to nuclear weapons. I agree with you that there is this lore of UFOs being connected to nukes and the idea goes that you know I think um if you believe like Robert Bob Solless for example has got a pretty famous story about the UFOs shutting down nukes. So there's been this connection even with the um the nuclear power plant meltdown in Japan as well that they claimed that they saw UFOs over that. But it always felt like there's got to be more to it, which is why why I'm really glad we're doing a deep dive into this here because I think you can just directly connect UFOs to nukes in a much more significant way. Starting with the energy source and [clears throat] uh also with the classifications because when we look at it, we go why is the Department of Energy the lead? Why are they over the UFO topic? If it's about aliens, wouldn't wouldn't it be like literally anybody but the Department of Energy that would be in charge of it? But no, it's the Department of Energy because they the question is what is the power source for these UFOs that are flying around and then connecting it to the I mean I'm going to give you even more to connect it to what you just said to just corroborate some of the stuff that you're saying here is that Heisenberg Heisenberg was actually Fryart Winterberg's mentor. the guy that I was just mentioning whose textbook I read about thermonuclear weapons that was his mentor was Heisenberg that Heisenberg. uh the guy that we pulled over from Project Paperclip and these shadows on the walls that you described that story that spooks me because that reminds me so much of the MH370 video where you see the reflection of the plane because it's if I'm right and that's a wormhole we're looking at total internal reflection where uh which is just a physics phenomenon of waves and you could see how like if they use some kind of fusion bomb or experimental nuclear weapon on people maybe it wormhold them somewhere else or ripped them to shreds or something and all that was left was their shadow on the wall which is like you said horrific to even think about. I mean a lot of what we're talking about here guys is might trigger you if you are um sensitive to any of these topics so I apologize. The other thing I want to say is the dlock the dlock connection is obviously been connected to the UFO phenomenon for a while. I find it to be the most credible explanation for anti-gravity research. If you go back in the history of anti-gravity research in general, you lead back to that two things that you mentioned related to it that I think hold a lot of weight when it comes to the physics. One is the buzz, the buzzing sound that it makes. Why is there a buzz? Because we're using pulsed current. So when you use high frequency pulse current is going to sound just like a buzzing sound just like a B would sound and that seems to be a very consistent requirement and a lot of this anti-gravitational or gravitational manipulation technology that I find is that you need to take a pulse current and you need to flow it through potentially very high frequencies. Salvatore Py was actually just on my podcast last week talking about this idea that time itself is connected to frequency and that if you have a rapid change or increase in frequency, you can potentially have a reverse temporal excursion, which means that you can actually reverse the flow of time if you rapidly shift your frequency, which could then explain really all these anti-gravitational effects that we're seeing. Um, and then the last thing is the mercury, the mercury aspect, spinning mercury, and I think you said thorium as well. But one thing I found was really interesting from a video I was watching of a very smart individual who was doing research into plasma physics and like photonic plasma physics, messing with light and stuff like that to get plasma to light up and to follow certain paths. He said that metal could almost be considered a plasma because if you look at what it requires to be a plasma, plasma has free electrons. We've ripped the electrons off of our atom. And so now we've got our free electrons and we got this soup of electrons and positively charged ions together. And metal actually has a very high electron drift rate. So the electrons are relatively free in metal as well. So you could actually imagine that there could be like a phase transition that happens in the mercury or what have you. It basically has it act like a plasma now at that point. >> Exactly. Exactly. And also notice that mercury is particularly electromagnetically reactive. So for torsion it's ideal. >> Yeah. And you can even just see if you go on X or on social media you'll find videos of people just taking mercury and connecting you know a circuit to it and then it just starts to spin you know it starts to spin as well. So I find all of that to have a huge amount of credibility with respect to the the the kind of story. So I guess what we're saying here is that or at least the the story is being presented is that the United States basically stole nuclear weapons from the Nazis. >> Well, let me give you a few more data points before we hastily jump to that conclusion because I think the picture is even darker than that. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh, now before I'm going to lay out a couple more very specific data points that have to do with this, but just as a as a preface to that, um, I can only say this in a really abbreviated form right now because otherwise we're going to go down a whole other rabbit hole. But let me point people to uh, again a couple of articles on my Substack. One called the Breakaway Culture and the other one Nuking the Matrix in which I discussed this. I also discuss it in my book, Closer Encounters, that people always talk about Operation Paperclip. They forget that the Central Intelligence Agency was created through the integration of General Reinhardt Galen's Eastern European Nazi spy network into the OSS. Okay? Because we had to then shift our focus to the Soviet Union as the enemy and the Nazis already had an extensive spy network in Eastern Europe behind Soviet enemy lines. The OSS made a deal to incorporate Galen's entire network into into the United States which became foundational for the CIA. Okay. So the CIA that's conducting paperclip and bringing over all these Nazi scientists is an organization now co-constituted by SS officers. You follow? Okay. Now what cards did General Galen have to play in order to make that deal? What cards did Martin Borman have to play when somehow he convinced our allies, the British, particularly uh you know, agent Ian Fleming, who went on to write the Bond novels, to facilitate Borman's evacuation to Argentina, where Borman, Martin Borman, went on to have a joint bank account with one Peron into the 1960s. Borman, who supposedly died three times, there's three conflicting accounts of his death, is still writing checks in his own name in Buenus IRS through Chase Bank in the late 1960s. Okay? And he's got a joint bank account, joint Swiss bank account with Juan Peron. All right. All that's necessary preface for the couple of data points that I'm going to give you now. In 1946, one year before Roswell, there are news reports coming out of Spain, some of which were translated into the United States and did appear. I've seen the clippings um in in English also talking about how Scorzani, the master of psychological operations of the Reich, is in Spain with General Francisco Franco, the only remaining fascist leader in Europe, and they're launching quote rocket shaped saucers unquote toward the United States. And these rocket shaped saucers are quote nuclearpowered unquote. It says it in the newspaper reports, nuclearpowered saucershaped rockets because they didn't know what the to call these things, right? So that's what they called them. And lo and behold, a year later, Roswell. Okay. And what's found in the Roswell craft? Velcro, Kevlar, night vision. Does this sound like, you know, space alien technology to you? No. It sounds like what the Germans were testing in the North African desert. Cutting edge, you know, German military technology. So there's that as one data point. Now another data point 1950-551 the German nuclear physicist Ronald Richtor is in Barilloce Argentina with the protection and backing of Juan Peron who is promising the Argentine people that RTOR will uh use this massive facility that's been built on uh Humel Island off Bariloce to produce fusion clean nuclear fusion power for Argentinians in the form of get this one liter or half liter devices. One liter or half liter devices with clean nuclear fusion. In 1952, the IAEA and local Argentines do a whole investigation into this and they say, "No, we don't understand what the this is. This isn't any fusion that we understand. this it must be a fraud and the whole thing goes black after that. Uh RTOR remains under one Peron's personal protection but this technology is never shared with the Argentine people and eventually um RTOR goes to all kinds of interesting places Libya and and other places you know the Germans also had an interesting footprint in the Arab world after World War II. Uh but then he comes back and he lives out the rest of his life in peace in Argentina. So what was this clean fusion? And by the way, to the day he died, Ronald Richtor said it was not a fraud. I was not lying. This was a real technology. And you know, we did this thing. So and when they went into his facility, what they found were extremely high voltage electromagnets that were being used to compress plasma. Okay, that's 1951. >> Wow. >> So, we achieved dirty fusion, neutronic fusion in 1952. What this suggests is that people well placed in the US intelligence community and probably a large number of corporatists who backed the rise of the Nazis in the first place. I'm talking about the Rockefellers, the Cariles, the Bush family, um, and you know, the people who set up the OSS. These people made a deal with Martin Borman and Hans Comler and they had access to the kind of technology that the Bell project represented and the kind of technology that Ronald Richtor was continuing to develop in Baraloce and the kind of technology that was on board those saucer-shaped rockets that you know Otto Scorzani was launching across the Atlantic from Spain toward the United States. Uh so what that presents to you is an argument for the Germans having achieved a neutronic nuclear fusion plasma fusion by 1951. Now, that makes a lot more sense out of why they would have been willing to give up the A-bomb to America because they had something that made atomic bombs look like matchsticks by comparison. >> And that's the same exact thing that you'll see some of these black project engineers say all the time. They'll say zero point energy makes nuclear weapons look like firecrackers. Right? So, they're saying the same thing about UFOs, zero point energy technology that we're saying about fusion bombs. You just said something that really spooked me, by the way. You mentioned the Carile Group. And the Carile Group was actually part of a private consortium of equity firms that acquired Frecale Semiconductors in 2006 for $17.6 billion. 20 engineers from that company were on the plane, Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, that disappeared without a trace. that there's two videos of the plane being zapped by I can only describe plasma orbs which I think is a an autonic fusion bomb that they used on the plane. So if that is true, then you could almost draw a direct connection between the people that have figured out fusion and covered it up since 1953 and 2014 when a plane full of engineers flying to China happens to just disappear off the face of the earth and no one seems to know what happened to it anymore. Let me address a couple of things that you just mentioned though because you brought up some really great points here and we're starting now to get into like how did the United States incorporate the Nazi technology, the Nazi intelligence and engineers and uh the information from them. Joseph P. Ferrell, I actually was able to finally communicate with him a little bit on email. Brilliant guy. He mentions Ronald RTOR and the idea of clean fusion in some of his interviews. Before I talk about that though, I want to say that going back to the UFO topic related, excuse me, related to like the flying saucer that you just mentioned, isn't it kind of interesting how UFOs have seemingly changed shape in the last 30 years? Like in the '9s when I was younger, it was all about flying saucers. That's what everybody was seeing. That's what everybody was reporting. And that seems to go back to the Del Glock. etc. But now I don't nobody really talks about flying saucers anymore. Now it's all about plasma orbs, energy orbs, etc. So, are the aliens getting smarter and advancing while they're watching us? Or is it really just us getting better and getting more advanced? And now we're going from rudimentary gravity manipulation technology to really getting more advanced with microengineering, micro electronics, uh fabrication of microchips, things like that. to the point now where we can make some pretty scarily advanced stuff. That's just a thought. But I want to mention right now the clean fusion because this is like the second >> real quick really quick just real quick on that note. I saw your interview with Salvatore Pais the recent one which was fantastic. I love that guy's attitude. Um he mentioned at one point and you were a bit surprised about um biological organic uh components of computational systems >> and you know there there recently have been stories about growing let's say uh neuronal organisms like you know brain in a petri dish kind of stuff like growing uh aspects or elements of a human brain and connecting it to microchips and developing a hybrid, you know, cybernetic computational system which would incorporate the quantum computational properties of the human brain together with the binary computational properties of like a microchip, you know, based system. >> The brain chips are coming and so is the like biological engineering. That's probably why we've banned cloning and why we've tried to put this huge stigma on like the Nazis trying to develop the perfect soul, the super soldier because that's where this is all going. I mean, this is all headed in a direction where we are going to integrate with advanced machine intelligence and there are going to be people that are being born where you're going to have a question of, hey, do you want to have a brain chimp implanted in you when you're a baby or are you going to opt out of the of this? And if you're opted in now, you have a permanent connection to everybody else. You have an internet in your mind that you can just, you know, communicate with anybody you want all the time. I think that's completely wild. But going back to the the main topic here, the clean fusion to me, that's the big secret. And so when you mention that, oh, RTOR was promising clean fusion for the world. We had dirty fusion. So let me explain what this is for the audience just in case they're not familiar. The thing that releases the radiation and the heat in the fusion bomb is the neutrons. The neutrons get released and the neutrons are the heat. Those are the radiation. So when they talk about a clean fusion bomb, which you hear this referenced all the time, clean fusion, clean fusion bomb. And people go, "What does that mean?" That means there's no neutrons or minimum neutrons that are being released in the interaction. Turns out this is a real thing. It's called a neutronic fusion. That's the name for it. There are several companies that are actually doing this right now, including Tri Alpha Energy and Helion Fusion. Helium Fusion was initially funded by the Department of Energy. They got Myithil Capital, Peter Teal's company that invested in them. And now Samman is the chairman of Helen Fusion as well. And the way that it works is it comes down to the fuel source that you use. So it was actually Joseph P. feral clip that I was watching where I think he says he was it was RTOR that I believe was working on the bomb, working on the hydrogen bomb and he goes or he may have been talking about the uh Castle Bravo test. I can't remember the exact context, but he says, "I added a little bit of boron to my lithium plasma mix. Added a little boron to it and that's how I was able to get this massive reaction." I think he was talking about um the Castle Bravo detonation. I could be wrong on that. So >> yeah, because it had a much higher yield than they anticipated. Castle Bravo did. >> They anticipated six megat tons, I believe, but it was like 15 in instead. And so he gets asked, "What was the thing that you did?" Oh, I added a little bit of boron. So here you go. There are three autronic fusion fuels. Just three. I found out about them because I was taking a look at a 2005 JNF presentation, which is like joint NASA, Air Force, Navy, etc. and they're talking about fusion the whole PowerPoint and it goes next generation fusion fuels number one helium 3 that stuck out to me because I went wait isn't everybody talking about mining helium 3 on the moon like why do I didn't know what we need helium 3 for but I'm going oh if helium 3 can be used as an autronic fusion fuel clean energy and then what are the other two one of them wasn't even listed but the other one was boron 11 proton boron 11 fusion can is a neutronic. Turns out this is the goal that helium fusion is aiming for is they're trying to aim for boron 11 fusion. Now the downside people say is that it takes a much higher temperature to achieve this level of fusion than conventional neutronic fusion. And so they say, "Oh well, if we can't do neutronic fusion, then why would we even bother with something that's even more difficult with a temperature requirement, energy requirements even higher than that?" The third fuel which is harder to find out about is lithium 6. Lithium 7. Turns out lithium 6 and lithium 7 are used in thermonuclear weapons and so it's very controlled in terms of who potentially has access to it. I did do a little bit of research and found out that the public sentiment is that lithium won't work for a neutronic fusion due to like the reaction, how much energy is being released from it. I'm a little skeptical of those claims just because we're literally using it in thermonuclear weapons. So maybe it's just something you mix in there. I'm not sure. So how is this become clean energy? How does this become unlimited energy? Well, the people that realize that we people realize that we potentially don't need to hit ignition to get over unity from these devices. So, Helen Fusion has come out and said, "Well, we're not even aiming for ignition." That we can actually create our electrical system that harnesses this energy by recuperating the input energy. Just like with a electric car, how the electric car breaks and recuperates the energy. They said that we can actually get the input energy down so low that we can achieve excess output energy from creating these plasma reactions um uh at a lower temperature than ignition. And in ignition, we would say because I've talked to some prominent people. I'm not going to say exactly who, but they always ask me, why is a neutronic fusion going to be the answer compared to these other fusion companies? And I tell them, one, it's direct energy conversion. So you say, okay, what does an a clean Hbomb look like? What does that actually look like? Well, we just said that a clean bomb has no neutrons or minimum neutrons. So that means there would be no heat and no radiation. So what does that actually look? That just means that what you're releasing is pure energy, pure electricity, if you want to think of it like that. And so I say, what? Of course, if I'm aiming for fusion, shouldn't I be aiming for the thing that produces direct electricity? Whereas normal uh nuclear reactors right now basically just heat up water, boil it, it creates steam, and then we spin a turbine with the steam. uh if you believe uh David Kirkley who's the CEO of Helium fusion and I do then the difference in efficiency is about 30% efficiency for an autonic or a neutronic fusion reaction and an autonic reaction is 90% or higher efficiency in direct energy conversion to electricity. So it turns out a neutronic fusion is the thing that we all thought about when we were kids how we thought nuclear power worked. That's actually how it really works. And then if we don't need to hit ignition, this is the other big critical thing. They say, "Well, the the reason why we're not aiming for this is because ignition level temperature is so high and we can't even figure that out." But David Kirkley says, "No, actually, we can our optimal run temperature is not even at ignition levels." Is that we're not with ignition. What we're trying to do is make a little sun. We're trying to make a sun that self-perpetuates so that it sits there forever and it just keeps going forever. With helium fusion, they're just doing short bursts of plasma at each other. So they're not trying to get this permanent sun to exist. And when they do this, right, according to their math, they can achieve over unity at temperatures that are 10 times lower than ignition. So this gets around all of the problems that people have related to it. And so just to add on and kind of close out this thought process is that I could absolutely see a world where this gets figured out in the 50s in the 60s and now we have inertial confinement fusion which is what confining the plasma with magnetic fields is all about. We've got inertial confinement fusion but now we've got a major problem on our hands here because now we have the answer to unlimited green energy for the rest of all of civilization. for the rest of all of civilization basically. And it's also tied to extremely dangerous weapons. Weapons that are beyond what we think of as what we did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Weapons that can potentially manipulate spaceime itself and could annihilate the whole planet, maybe the whole solar system in just the blink of an eye. So this is where I want to take one last thought is that three of my favorite authors are Arthur C. Clark, Isaac Azimoff, and Robert Heinland. Heinland apparently and all these guys they they pushed this idea of what did they call it? Um basically hard sci-fi, the idea that the the science fiction they would write would be based on real physics. And Heinland believed that the only way that we wouldn't annihilate ourselves with thermonuclear winter would be that if we created a one world government. How how interesting is that given the context of the the potential secrecy of these weapons, the collusion potentially between the Nazis and the United States, and then the massive implications of the weapons, which I think I first heard you talk about on Danny Jones, saying that we can't give everybody a time machine because if these weapons are able to manipulate spaceime, now you're giving people a literal time machine. So now you've created pretty much an ultimate weapon. Go ahead. >> So now I'm going to share something with you that's uh even creepier and that has to do with the potential engineering re-engineering of space-time metrics using nuclear weapons. >> Yes. >> And um again I would refer people to my essay called nuking the matrix. And I'll tell you why I called it that. It may surprise many people to discover that the first scientist, first serious person to ever consider the possibility that we're living inside a computational matrix was the German computer scientist Conrad Zusa. Conrad Zusa was the Nazi Allan Turing and Turing was racing against Zusa. So ZUSA actually was in the lead in computer development in World War II, working with much better, smaller transistors than the ones that we had. The German subsidiary of IBM was found to be about 10 years ahead of American technology when we went into Nazi Germany. So Conrad Zusa is the the Nazi Allan Turing and guess what he figures out in the 1940s? He looks at all the anomalies uh on the quantum level like wave particle duality and quantum entanglement and he says you know what this looks like to me this looks like some kind of a efficient computational process. It looks to me like a computational system is trying to efficiently process information and that's why we have things like u the fact that a particle isn't rendered unless it's being observed comes up with this in the 1940s. And here's the more disturbing thing that he says based on the model he develops which he calls calculating space. In other words, space itself is a calculating medium. He says, you know, if this model is correct, the system generally can render local reality very rapidly and consistently and in a stable manner. But if it's locally disrupted by an extremely volatile high entropy event, you might start to see glitches in the matrix. they would be observable on the level of quantum experimentation like shooting photons and stuff, you'll start to get experimental results that are off. >> If there's a very high entropy dynamic event taking place and what did he consider the best candidate for such an event? A nuclear explosion. >> Oh, are you ready for this? Let me add on to that real quick, which is so when I investigated the people that developed the Hbomb and advanced the Hbomb, John Knuckles, Loel Wood for example, um they actually proposed paper in 1974 to test general relativity using thermonuclear weapons. And what were they implying? the exact same thing that you just said that thermonuclear weapons might be manipulating spaceime. They might be producing gravitational ripples, gravitational waves. Why were they thinking that in 1974? Why were they publishing public scientific papers about that? They had to have known that that's exactly what was going on. And this is where I say, "Oh my goodness, it must the UFO topic must be connected to nukes." And let me even take it a step further because now in retrospect, to me it's obvious. So you go, "Wait a minute. How do they say that we would manipulate spacetime? How would we manipulate gravity?" Well, we need a huge amount of mass. They say in order to make a wormhole, we need the mass of Jupiter right here. You know, if I had a massive, if I had a Jupiter right here, then spacetime would be getting bent all around Jupiter because it's producing all this gravity. We all understand that. Take it to the next level. Einstein said E= MC². That means there's an exchange of energy and mass. That means when we talk about these calculations, we can interchange mass and energy with one another. That means we don't just need the the mass of Jupiter. We can take the energy mass of Jupiter and that will do the exact same thing. Now, what were we doing with thermonuclear weapons? Well, we were trying to make them very, very powerful. Remember we just said about Castle Bravo? It was two and a half times more powerful than what we expected. And then we took it even further. Then John Knuckles in the 60s said, "You know what? I can make it even more efficient if I use geometry and get our waves to collapse perfectly onto a point. I can amplify that even higher, increase the gain in increase the amount of energy output relative to the amount of energy input. So now you have to start to wonder, wait, how much did they really amplify that energy? And especially if they did it a neutronically, which is three times more efficient than neutronic fusion bomb might be. Last thought is this. So now we've connected, okay, we can potentially get this huge amount of energy, which is what we would need to manipulate spaceime, but are there scientific papers that support it? Yeah, there is. In fact, there's a really famous one by a guy named Harold Pudof where Tim Burchchett of Congress held up his scientific paper in 2023 during the UFO hearing and said, "Here's a little light reading for you. What is the name of that paper? polarizable vacuum model space-time metric engineering by Hal Pudof and in that he says that we can unify electromagnetism and general relativity and this basic idea is that electromagnetism will manipulate spacetime the zero point energy to allow anti you know gravity manipulation as well as potentially a wormhole in theory. Um so now we've got all the basis to put it all together plus just another little tidbit for you. I just watched a video where Hal Pudof is sitting next to Edward Teller at a dinner telling him his theories and you're sitting here going, "Wait a minute. People are saying Edward Teller is like the guy that knows all the secrets, right? They had probably a crisis of conscience when the guy died because we had to pass these secrets on to somebody else. So why is Hal Pudof now sitting in a meeting with him?" So this is where I think you can pretty much draw a straight line between thermonuclear weapons directly to space-time manipulation and the UFO topic. Go ahead. Yes. And I can add a couple of elements to that that that even fill out the physics in a more compelling way. Uh you have to add the work that was done by um Ralph Landau in the 1960s, also a German, although a Jewish German who was escaping the Nazis. And then John Archald Wheeler. >> Yes. And what took place between Ralph Landau and John Archbald Wheeler was the recognition that um it's not just energy and matter that are interconvertible you know Allah Einstein they realized that there's a third term in this um interconvertability which is information and this [clears throat] speaks to why you know um observation the the the uh the integral element of the observer and the collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics already tells us that information processing namely by an observer is integral to fundamental physics. And what um uh Arch John Archald Wheeler uh developed building on Ralph Landau was the idea that uh energy and matter are different states of information. Uh now Conrad Zusa already realized this. The Nazi German computer scientist Conrad Zusa in the 1940s and what Zusa is saying is that when a nuclear bomb goes off the computational system can't catch up with the disruption to the normal rendering algorithm. >> So the mesh of the matrix is sheared locally. H. >> Now if Wheeler is right and if what people want more detail, I wrote about this in my book Satan. If Wheeler is more if Wheeler is right about this, then what we call dark matter is actually anformational cloud. It's a form of matter that's not electromagnetically detectable, but that contains information and has gravitational effects, massive gravitational effects. Now if we're living in a computational similacum and the space the spatial matrix what Conrad Zusa called the renander around the calculating space gets torn locally around the nuclear explosion. It could be that that opens up cracks through which we have access to dark matter that is much more massive and that dark matter then could warp the space-time matrix locally in an even more significant way. In other words, if our similacrim is nested inside a larger quantum computational system and it's being projected from outside some kind from from out of some kind of cloud uh informationational processing medium like dark matter, cracks in the local space-time mesh could allow a a denser uh more gravitationally disruptive form of matter to also further further impact the um the the space-time uh rendering in the environments of a nuclear explosion. >> Which brings me to the other thing. Yes, it could be that nukes are surveilling nuclear power plants and surveilling nuclear stockpiles and there's a great deal of evidence for that that Robert Hastings, you know, has laid out in his book on UFOs and nukes. But there's another possibility as well and they're not mutually exclusive and that's that some of the UFOs that we see, you know, Beatric Villa Royal's recent uh study of the Palomar plates from the 1950s >> seems to suggest that tens of thousands of these things would show up, especially like within hours of a nuclear explosion. >> And one possibility is that they're coming from other dimensions. that when a nuke locally shears the fabric of spaceime, cracks open that allow access to other dimensions and that you know craft that come from basically other similacra are breaking through into ours. That's also a possibility and David Lynch played with that in a very interesting way in the third season of his Twin Peaks television series. It's basically built on this idea that, you know, beginning in 1945 when we started setting off nukes, we sort of compromised the spatial temporal fabric in a way that allowed things from other dimensions to get in to our world. >> So that's another thing, you know, worth considering here. >> Yeah. So let me jump on. Yeah. Because John [clears throat] Wheeler, I mean, the guy is a legend, although he doesn't get probably nearly enough credit. He was also one of the help developers of the HBO originally. He's the guy that coined the term wormhole and black hole actually. So when he's talking about these concepts, people should probably listen because he's one of the people that was on the forefront of these ideas back in the 50s and the 60s out there. Um I think you conceptualize it very well. I personally have a slightly different take on the dark energy. I just think the dark energy, dark matter is just zero point energy. It's the latent energy of spaceime itself. And yes, I do think we're absolutely making cracks in it. We're we're we're bending it. We're manipulating that. I think this you could think of the zero point energy as as spaceime itself as the reason why there's distance between here and >> I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. No, no. Yeah. >> I'm just saying that it's anformational medium. Yeah. >> It's an 0. It's anformational medium. >> And let me add to that. So, I'm not sure if you know about Charles Chase, but he's a legendary Loheed Martin engineer. He was uh leader of the revolutionary technologies division of the Loheed Martin skunk works. And I know Jesse Michaels spoke to him because Jesse Michaels said, "I spoke to the the guy who was a leader of the revolutionary technologies division." I'm going, I know who that guy is. That's Charles Chase. And Charles Chase replied to one of my emails. These guys almost never reply to my emails, by the way. And when Hal Pudof responded, I only got back like fiveword answers from him, even though I I wrote out like the whole history of his research. Um, but Charles Chase said something really interesting about zero point energy. I actually asked him, "Do you believe in the ether, which is, you know, this idea of this extra dimension of energy?" And he says, I do think the idea of the ether is real. And he says, I think that also it has a memory. So this speaks directly to what you're saying about spacetime being anformational medium. is that what Charles Chase is implying is that what we do is remembered in spacetime like spacetime is rendering kind of what what is happening and this is also connected to coherence and decoherence with you know the double slit experiment and quantum mechanics. So one more thing I want to say on quantum mechanics is that tunneling is direct. >> By the way Ashton >> please Nicola Tesla believed that Nicola Tesla became friends with Swami Viveananda and they had long conversations about Sanskrit metaphysics together and Tesla came around around to believing that the ether was anformational medium that stored memory that that was a it was a memory uh storage system. Uh, and he said basically the Hindus were kind of on the right track when they called it the Accasha, the Akashic record of the cosmos. >> Okay, let me Oh, this is perfect. I had this up on my screen right here. This is perfect. So, I've got this thing about Tesla told Lord Kelvin at his visit with the meeting German professor Herman von Heel Holtz. He holtz is a pretty famous physicist as well. And they talked about the idea of ether and vortex rings says in the question what passes on the impulse Kelvin came to the conclusion it are they are vortices in the ether with that he had found an answer and experience with his students he built boxes with which he could produce smoke rings to be able to study and demonstrate and experiments the special properties of ringlike vortices and their flow technical analogy. So what these guys believed, these basically pioneers of electromagnetism, they believed we were in a medium and they believed vortex motion somehow interacted with that medium. I think that what we found now recently, especially as we, if you guys look up like optical traps, we're using light to measure vortices. And I think that that's what we're essentially doing, but with much more advanced technology and experimentation nowadays compared to what we did in the past. And I think what we're realizing is yes, there really is a medium and we know it for a fact. The question is how do we interact with it in a meaningful way. Salvatore Py would say that and I don't want to be speaking for him but I believe he would say that we need to break make our system go far from equilibrium. And also I think just from in general my research that you only begin to see some of these effects at very high energy levels which also imply that we need this huge energy level to break through that medium. But once you get close enough to that threshold then you start to see those effects but before that you don't really see them. And this is the reason why when people are doing smallcale experiments for anti-gravitational technologies they don't get major effects. This is why like Eugene Poplinov when he talks about spinning superconductors to produce these thrust why it's so easy to debunk it because the the measurements are so tiny and the margin of error is so high that people can say oh well it's just within the margin of error you didn't really prove that the thing is real but this is why high energy physics is so important because the people that are doing the highest energy physics they're going to be the ones that are going to see this because you got to get up to this threshold first. Um, do you have any comments on that? And then I have a couple other things. Go ahead. >> Yes. So, [snorts] um, I know I agree with all of that. uh I agree with the brunt of it but um I would like to add this that you know when you think about autonic fusion in other words clean thermonuclear detonations you also have to realize that the main reason we haven't had a nuclear war is because of the danger of fallout right the danger of radioactive contamination of the areas where detonations take place and then fallout patterns that because of the nature of weather systems will deposit the radiation over hundreds of miles across oceans in some cases. I mean look what happened with Fukushima. I mean cattle in Washington state and Oregon were radiated. So the reason we haven't had a nuclear war is mainly because of the radiation that comes from the fusion tri sorry the fision trigger the neutronic fision trigger in a fusion bomb. That's why nuclear weapons were never used on a large scale. >> Now, if it were known that it was possible, and and of course, this is why the Nazis were interested in this in the first place, right? I mean, the best nuke is a nuke you can set off in a target area and then your soldiers can move in immediately without fear of radiation, right? So if it were known that you could use nuclear weapons on a large scale without any danger of radioactive contamination, nuclear war would be a lot more likely. Now consider what we were saying about Conrad Zeus's observations or rather Conrad Zeus's speculation about how the extremely high entropy dynamic energetic event of a nuclear detonation could uh shear or compromise the rendering of local spaceime. What would be the effects of hundreds of autonic thermonuclear weapons going off simultaneously on the planet? Could it be that at that point like you seen the movie the 13th floor where you know the guy sees the mesh of the matrix and drives to the edge of fake Los Angeles and there the road ends and he sees the mesh of the matrix. Could it be that if we had a global nuclear war, thermonuclear war, but using a neutronic fusion devices, it would so thoroughly up the spatiotemporal matrix that we would basically see the mesh of the computational system that we're inside of. And maybe that's why the entities on the other side of the UFO phenomenon are obsessed with making sure that we don't set off nuclear weapons on a large scale because it might show us something about the nature of the world that we're living in that they don't want us seeing. Yeah. Sorry. So, um, I think that I want to address a few of those points and I do want to talk about this idea of breaking the matrix. But a couple other points on the science of it real quick on the on the internal nuclear weapons I want to throw out there is tunneling, quantum tunneling is used in fusion. In fact, that's how we break the coolum barrier. So, if we have two ions that are positively charged, two positively charged things should repel each other. So when we get fusion happen, the idea is that we're creating so much pressure and heat that we're forcing these things together to get over that coolum barrier. Now, if you research cold fusion and some theories around cold fusion, you'll find there's a resonance model of it. That how are we able to get fusion to happen at these low temperatures that don't require that? And they say, "Oh, well, it's resonance that will allow that to happen." And at certain resonant frequencies, just like with the diglock, we were talking about pulse frequencies, you have your cross-section of fusion goes way up, goes way up, weirdly at certain frequencies, that's what happens. And the idea is like imagine you're like vibrating your hands back for at some point like you're going to be like over the top of one another. And this is a quantum mechanical effect that we see where we can have two things at the same point where normally we can't have that. Every things are firmians can't generally be at the same position. But according to general relativity and quantum mechanics that becomes possible now. So the other thing I want to point out is computers. You mentioned computers and these this idea that nukes are you know almost you could imagine the patterns as being a computational pattern. Well it turns out we were literally building computers for thermon thermonuclear weapons. One of the big things that knuckles was working on when he was doing building his his h bombs his clean h bombs was he was doing the computations. They were putting plugging in old IBM cards to do the computers. So you can actually draw a direct line between computer advancement and thermonuclear weapons. And John Kramer, he's uh a experimental nuclear physicist out of University of Washington. He said he got asked and I it's one of my favorite clips where he gets asked what do they use quantum computers for? Nobody really knows what they're practically using quantum computers for. And he goes, "Oh, we use it for nuclear weapons calculations." the computer can do the calculations, these complex integrals just like that where it's very extremely difficult and time intensive for a human being to try to do those things. I'm just sitting here going I mean you just you just told me the the secret here which is that like we developed computers for nuclear weapons and then we needed quantum computers that were even more powerful to be able to do these complex integrals and these fusion reactions with quantum tunneling and stuff happening and we needed to be able to react in real time too as our plasma is like you know interacting what have you is that that's I think where AI and quantum computers come from is probably that direct technology and so absolutely I see a situation where we're afraid for multiple reasons. This is where I want to start to move to the geopolitics side of this, which is what are the implications? If we're right, this hypothesis is true that thermonuclear weapons are able to manipulate spaceime. Now, we're talking about time travel. And a lot of people ask me, what is the impact on the 0 point energy on spaceime itself? If we're doing this, will the zero point energy just kind of come in and fill the gaps? And if so, is there a limit to that? Are we using up all of the spaceime when we're, you know, either pulling energy from it or doing these detonations? Is it impacting other realities? Are there other realities? And is there a multiverse? And then >> the bigger thing, and to me that I think that honestly seeing the matrix is the least the thing I'm least afraid of. The thing I'm more afraid of is someone's going to mess up the time stream and we're going to get caught in some kind of time loop. Hell, maybe we are. Maybe our reality is a time loop where somebody did something like that. So, those are just some of my thoughts. What do you think? >> Oh, I agree with all of it. I think that our timeline has been broken and we're already in some up time loop urubos serpent eating its own tail kind of thing that you see like in the German TV series Dark. >> Yes. >> Um and then about us messing up other realities with nuclear weapons detonations. You know, I have often accused the Nordics who appeared to contactes in the 1950s of being extremely duplicitous, deceptive individuals. However, I do have to note that one of the things that they did say to multiple contacties was, "You've got to stop these nuclear detonations because they're messing with the world that we come from in ways that you don't understand." >> So, >> who knows? It might be. >> And there's a theory called the twin paradox or twin uh universe theory too which is this idea of like there's always duality in physics. So you have positive charge, you have minus charge and we see that everywhere in physics. So why wouldn't there be like an alternate flip side of our reality like in the stranger things you know the what do they call it the underworld or whatever they call it. Um, so you could see like what if this situation is like we're every what if all the energy we borrow is an energy from another universe and what the energy they borrow is energy from our universe. And so you could see a situation where like we do something like that. And yes, maybe we're either opening a hole to that universe or we're just taking from that universe. Those are just some thoughts that I personally had when I thought about this idea of like why the UFOs would show up if they do come from another dimension. But my personal opinion, and this is the thing like we can't know the truth until we like experiment it, of course, obviously, but my opinion is that there isn't another bizarro dimension, but there is another dimension that's out there. And the dimension is how we can basically take a shortcut through our perceivable reality. Like I I use that extra dimension to hop to Mars and now I'm just on Mars instantly as opposed to, you know, 6 months or 3 months later, however it gets over there. But even in a scenario like that, you could still say that the aliens are extradimensional if they're coming from, you know, uh, you know, the Andromeda galaxy, which would be completely impractical from a distance perspective for us to get to without some sort of extradimensional space hop if you want to think of it like that. Um, couple last >> a bit of a word. It becomes a bit of a word game at that point because yes, I mean, if they're using extra dimensions to get here from Mars or from Andromeda or wherever, then technically speaking, it's extradimensional because they're using an extra dimension to get here. Just like, you know, if there are humans on Mars, and let's say there were humans on Mars, you know, 100 million years ago, the way that, you know, John Brandenburgg thinks there's evidence for that. And you know, the the Viking probe brought back these photos of uh ruins that were subsequently used as remote viewing targets that showed uh you know, multiple remote viewing teams that there were humans living on Mars 100 million years ago. Now, if those humans use um you know, extradimensional jump gates to get to places on Earth, then they're both extraterrestrial because they're coming from Mars technically, even though they're human. and they're extradimensional because they're using another dimension to get here, right? So, it becomes a bit of a word game at that point. You know, the important thing is that they're human. They're human. They may be from another planet, therefore extraterrestrial. They may be using hyperdimensional technology to get here without actually traversing space, which means they're extradimensional. But bottom line, if they if it if it walks like a human, it talks like a human and quacks like a human, it's a human. Okay. And I think that's one of the most egregious um uh deceptions and misdirection that's going on in the current disclosure discourse is the degree to which these gatekeepers of disclosure want us not to think about how many humans appear to be involved with UFOs coming out of UFOs, taking people, you know, being seen on UFOs. And John Ramirez, to go back to him for a moment, one of the things that he did tell me was, you know, he said he read my book, Closer Encounters, and he said there were other people who were reading my book, Closer Encounters. And he's like, "Listen, we don't understand how you got like 80% of this right. I mean, 80% of what you have in this book." And he wouldn't tell me what 20% I got wrong, but 80% of what you have in this book lines up with what the CIA's concluded. And he said in particular what the whistle so-called whistleblowers who aren't whistleblowers because they go through a dosser clearance process which means they're actually spokesman. In any case, >> what the the two things they're never allowed to talk about >> are [clears throat] the connection to the Nazis >> really >> and Atlantis Atlanteanss >> meaning the human dimension of the UFO phenomenon. >> Very interesting. That is really interesting because that's the conclusion I've reached is that it's the whole disclosure movement is basically to give plausible deniability for the people that are actually using this technology in a legal way. I think other people that would agree are um you know Steven Greer for sure even though he you know he believes that the ETSs and stuff are there but he also thinks that we're using illegally. Timothy Aberino who's uh shared his story of uh Peru where the face peelers were people being attacked you know so there's a lot of people out there I think they're on the other side of it that are looking at and going even if it does come from some other um origin non-human intelligence origin we at this point it's pretty apparent that the evidence is that we're using it in corrupt ways ways that are at minimum morally ambiguous possibly just straight up illegal ways in which the public would never be able to wrap wrap their brain around most likely. And that's what I want to get into in the next part here is that right before I do that is I want to talk about the geopolitical implications. And the way I want to segue into this is that I read the nuclear critical nuclear classification codes. I didn't know anything about it. I figured, hey, if this is nuclear weapons, maybe there's some clues in how we classify this stuff. First thing I find out is we call them sigas. So there's sigma classifications for different, let's say, properties of thermonuclear weapons. It's not always defined based on property. In fact, they re Obama redid them all in 2011. And so now they're super vague. Now it's just like anything related to the the operation and knowledge of thermonuclear. But before they were actually specific. Sigma number one, the very first sigma is magneto hydronamics control of plasma with electromagnetic fields. That's the very first sigma categorization. So they use these categorizations like we do a test and it'll say sigma one and that's how they can just black it out so that only like the president and people with their super secret >> there you have it. >> Yeah. So there you have it. And you want to know the other one I I read through them. The two that I thought were the most interesting. Number one magneto hydrodnamics that connects plasma directly to thermonuclear weapons which isn't that surprising but if we think about the plasma non-fishing triggers for clean fusion bombs there you go. The other one's sigma 11, which is just straight up inertial confinement fusion. And I go, "Wow." Okay. Because there you go. There's your connection to RTOR and his clean fusion. And it turns out who are the pioneers of inertial confinement fusion. Well, Friedart Winterberg, the guy that I mentioned, who was Heisenberg was his mentor. on his textbook, the very on the cover of his textbook says, "Inial confinement fusion is the secret to unlimited green energy for humanity." Right on the front of the cover of the textbook. Just says it right there. And who is who are the other uh pioneers? Well, John Knuckles, turns out the literal guy that was developing the clean fusion bomb, is the guy that started the national ignition facility, the NIF, which we finally just achieved in 2022. They achieved coefficient of performance or O Q factor they call it now greater than one, which means more energy out. It was for a very brief period of time, but it shows the idea that it's possible. So, this takes me to the next part where it starts to talk about the geopolitical implications. And I want to segue into this through something called the JSONs because I want to get your opinion on the JSON group. This is idea this JSON group and it's real 100% real. They have um the idea is that they are essentially professors that are that are knowledgeable about black projects if they're not included in the black projects and they meet with the CIA every summer and they have a list of topics they're going to talk about and the idea is that they determine where the line is between the public knowledge of the physics and national security essentially. And I can give two examples real quick of when there were tribunals done by the JSON group. One was actually Lel Wood himself, John Knuckles's uh colleague. He was written up by the JSONs in like the 70s. Maybe it was the ' 80s, but I think it was 70s because apparently he shared with the Chinese some equation, some probably like, you know, geometric equation type stuff that we use to make thermonuclear weapons. So they wrote him up and it diminished his reputation significantly. Turns out he got off on kind of a technicality where somebody was able to find a public scientific paper that talked about those equations at least so the story goes. But this damaged his reputation and he ended up not getting certain positions later on. So this is how they damage your career. This is how they keep it secret. They make sure that everybody who are the engineers stay in line. And then one other example which is a really interesting one a lot more recently in the 2000s a guy named Robert ML Baker also known as Bob Baker he had an extensive about 20 or more papers on high frequency gravitational waves laboratory produced gravitational waves including communications telescopes uh literally anything you could kind of imagine propulsion related to them. um his friend Gary Stevenson who's a Boeing I'm gonna call him a black project engineer. I don't know that for a fact, but let's just say I'm pretty confident. Gary Stevenson tells this story to Tim Ventura and he says Robert MLB Baker was actually written up by the JSON by a guy named Ron Pandalfi of the CIA. They put it on the agenda one summer and Gary Stevenson goes with Robert MLB Baker to I think it was San Diego where the tribunal was being held basically with the agenda and they determined whether or not Robert MLB Baker shared too much information with China China once again about gravitational waves and he also got a slap on the wrist where they argued apparently it was argued that the Gersinstein effect or reverse Gersinstein effect was not powerful enough to produce significant gravitational waves. Therefore, what he shared with China wasn't a matter of national security. Blah blah blah. So, those are just a couple of examples how in my mind they've basically been able to control academia as well as these nuclear engineers and scientists that are working on black projects so that it doesn't leak out because everybody is always telling me out there if this was real people would know about it would be leaking out. But they built this culture of secrecy around the Manhattan project that keeps it secret from even Americans, even public. So what do you have any thoughts on the JSON uh situation? You know any information about that? >> Yeah. Well, I mean I'm named uh after the same myth, you know. Um the they're named after Jason and the Argonauts and the quest for the Golden Fleece, which is a rather romantic um iconography, you know, for such an organization. Uh that they're really like they're in search of the Golden Fleece, and they're going to go to this alien land and fight monsters on the way to bringing back the Golden Fleece, right? And of course, remember Jason was involved with the sorceress Media with whom he had children. And then she goes crazy and kills his children. So that's a hell of a myth to base the name of an organization on. You know the Jasons. Now there's been some speculation that the term MJ12 refers to the 12 innermost highlevel members of the Jasons that it's you know Jason 1 through 12 member of Jason 12. >> I asked John John Ramirez about that among other things and he said that that's not the case. I don't know whether he knows that for a fact that you know this group which has also sometimes been called majestic or majestic 12 is a different group from the Jasons but some people have said it's the same thing and the first 12 Jasons are the MJ12 which would then mean that they're they were at least in the time of Eisenhower uh and probably Kennedy the control group for you know UFO tech in the United States. So that's what I would say about them. Um, but you know, you you're mentioning China is is really also relevant to the question of the Jasons in a way that brings me back to something we we said at the outset of the conversation about Trump's framing of these weapon systems as our technology that's unrivaled in the world. >> Mhm. Um, if you ever have the chance to speak with John Ramirez, one thing you might ask him about, which I'm not going to get into here, is the level of technology transfer to the People's Republic of China. I'm not going to say anything else about that. But uh what I will say is that if we have a group of basically like wizards in the various scientific disciplines and domains of technological development who are ultimately responsible for perpetuating the hegemony of the United States and you know guaranteeing our national security. Why is it that we've allowed the Chinese and the Russians in other countries to catch up with this technology over the last 70 years when the paper trail suggests that by 1951 working with our dear incorporated Nazi allies we had this a neutronic fusion technology already. What what explains this geopolitical strategy where we gave our rivals 70 years to try to catch up to the point where now we've got Chinese drones over New Jersey and Lord knows where else that appear to be demonstrating some level of this electrogravitics technology. Right. So, uh that bothers me. >> What's your take on that question? Because I'm actually wondering that myself. Go ahead. >> I think here's where we need to look at 911 for example. And and here I think Joseph Frell's got it absolutely right that nine okay look we brought in and when I say we brought in what I mean is that there were various vested interests in the United States corporate elites >> people controlling major industries and elements of the government that were already beholden to those corporate industrialists Rockefellers Carliles Aers Carnegies >> the Bush family who to begin and Morgan. Oh, JP Morgan who in the first place and the Doulles brothers who were in business with Morgan and with the Rockefellers and who all funded the rise of the Nazis, the rise of the Nazis and of Mussolini. That's the Wii here. Okay. So, the people who brought the Nazis home in Operation Paperclip, which was kind of a homecoming, are the people who created fascism in Europe to begin with. All right. Now they also appear to be the people who fielded the operation on 911. They had enough access to various levels of security and operational capability in this country to be able to carry out that operation and to confuse the normal security apparatus of the United States on that day, to confuse NORAD, to confuse the military, you know, with various exercises and so forth. and and to know, for example, that the Twin Towers would come down the way that they did because, you know, well, a lot of people don't know is that the largest realtor in the Twin Towers was the National Security Agency and that the most important NSA facility outside of Fort me was in the World Trade Center where the NSA was monitoring basically all the uh information from Wall Street, all signals, intelligence of financial transactions from Wall Street were being monitored by the NSA from the World Trade Center. So that was an incredibly sensitive intelligence facility which get this was wired from the day the building was built. Those poor people and you know I'm a native New Yorker and there were stories all the time I was growing up in New York. People used to call the World Trade Center those tombs. those tombs because it was rumored that the buildings were wired from the time they were built so that in case they ever lost control of the World Trade Center to a terrorist to a to a natural disaster, who knows, whatever. And that data was potentially going to be compromised. They were going to pull the building. They were going to bring it down to control demolition. Okay? So, whoever carried out that operation on 911 knew that, too. They knew that, too. Anyway, uh, one thing that 9/11 shows you is that there is a substratum of the American deep state which has so thoroughly differentiated itself from the civilian government of the United States and from mainstream American culture or the lack thereof, whatever our culture has become, that it attacked the United States on 911. See, and what's 911 2001? It marks one decade since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Who was the arch rival of the Nazis? The Soviet Union. >> So, a bunch of Nazis were brought home to the people who financed them in the first place. They were used for like 50 years to collapse communism and successfully defeat the Soviet Union. And then round about 2001, these people declared some kind of a divorce from the US government in the attack of 911. And so again, this problematizes President Trump's statement that we have technology that nobody else has. Well, no, they have technology that nobody else has. And whether we can get control of that technology back is very much an open question. And you have to ask yourself again, why did they allow the rivals of the United States to start to develop the same kind of technology? Are they intending to oversee the destruction of what we consider to be the United States or the American Republic in a war with these rivals and only over the ashes and rubble of that confrontation emerge as some kind of a new imperium? Is that the plan here? That concerns me gravely. Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion that I was thinking you were making, too, which is that it goes back to the one world government. Um, I guess I'll call it a conspiracy theory, but I happen to think that's probably where this goes to, cuz I've constantly wondered if we've had this figured out since the 60s, potentially unlimited energy. Why are we letting China and Russia catch up? Now, we're not letting Iran do it. We just bombed Iran. We just destroy We We let the MSAD assassinate their nuclear scientists. We bombed their facilities, so we didn't let them do it. And do you notice that China and Russia did literally nothing? We sent bombers over there, blew them up, flew back, and Russia and China said nothing in response, even though they're Iran's ally. It feels to me like there's some handshake agreements behind the scenes, or there's a couple different angles to it. One could be that we all know that this technology exists and we're just not going to let the primitive countries of the world ever have it. And it's just like you're either in the club and we're just kind of pretending to be adversarial when we're not. The other angle of it is well the corporation aspect of it. The the corporations are really the ones that own it. The the defense contractors have gotten kind of out of control. And this is the part where I think I'm leaning towards this and what you're potentially saying is that these people the these organizations that are uh you know at this point transgenerational corporate uh corporate companies that have been around since the turn of the century of the 1900s are the ones that really control the information, control the technology. And yes, there are clearly ties to the government like we can pull the strings. And that's what makes me think that maybe Trump and his administration, you know, we talked about how him being elected kind of disrupted the Hillary Clinton plan. Maybe he's actually starting to pull some of this pull this back a little bit. I mean, I pretty much I hope that's what's going on and that's the reason why he's saying stuff like that because I don't know why else he would be dropping little hints like that here or there. But that's one of my thoughts. And then the question from this is where is the line? But my other problem is, well, if we have this super advanced technology, then it's just a crime against humanity to not be why why do we have so many poor people? Why do we have so many homeless people in America if we have unlimited green energy and we've had it for 60 years? To me, that's the part where I look at that and I go, they don't have the American people's best interest at heart. Whoever has this technology, they don't have it at that interest at heart. And so that's why I I agree with you in terms of you know the people are hiding this that are nefarious that you could argue are evil uh hiding this technology. Um but then the question is well what is the right thing to do? So I the flip side of that is I go back to you actually when you talked to Danny Jones and said well we can't give everybody a time machine. If these are literally time machines and we've built these miniaturized clean fusion bombs that can manipulate spaceime, we've made it that advanced, then this is where it gets dark for people out there. And this is where people start to get really upset with my political opinions because I got blackpilled when I was researching this and I'm going, we can't give this to people. Like I'm even sitting here wondering like why are we letting China and Russia get this and we shouldn't be letting them get this. We shouldn't be letting anybody else get this. And as much as it sucks to say, we can't let Iran have this. We can't let any culture on this earth that would strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up can never have this technology ever. Like that's probably a hard stance view. What do you think? >> Well, in the case of Iran, what you really mean is the Islamic Republic. I mean, correct. The vast majority of Iranians are against this theocratic regime. >> Yeah. And uh actually probably demographically Iran is the most pro-American country on the face of the earth. Much more pro-American than any of the European countries at this point. The Iranian people love America. So uh you know if Iran were governed by a regime that was representative of its people then that might be another question. But I think the bigger problem is this >> that China and Russia are hierarchical quasi feudal control systems where their governments could come out and say, "Guess what, folks? We have this and we're using it, you know, for the glory of the Chinese people or for, you know, the Russian Empire and we're not going to share it with you in the civilian sphere." And people will just accept that because those are tyrannical regimes. See, and you can get away with that in China and Russia, but you can't get away with that in America. So, we're at a significant disadvantage there because of the socopolitical culture and constitutional principles of this country. >> So, what would be required to mitigate that >> would be some tremendous cultural revolution in this country >> which you [clears throat] know is very far-fetched frankly. uh you know the idea that you're going to take a country where on the one hand you have a bunch of evangelical medievalminded backwater people who you know are now increasingly framing UFOs exclusively in terms of the angels and demons from the Bible. And on the other hand, you have a bunch of, you know, SJW libtar lefties who want to basically burn down western civilization because of all of its supposed transgressions against colonized people. With this kind of a polarity that essentially sums up the political landscape of America, I don't understand how these gatekeepers are supposed to release this technology to the citizens. You see, we we're left with a and see that's why that's where I fit into this conversation because I'm not a euphologist. I'm a philosopher. And so what I've been trying to come up with in, you know, the 15 books I've written so far is some kind of a philosophical framework for not just a political revolution, but a cultural revolution, a social and psychological reorientation of our people and our civilization without which it's a pipe dream to think that this is ever going to be public sector technology. Yeah, that's a great point is and I think that's what the the UFO people really want to have happen. But I just don't think I think it's a lot more challenging than they ever imagined, which is they need we need a psychological perspective shift, you know? And I think they think, oh, well, when we tell everybody that the aliens are real, all of a sudden everyone will just change and be like, "Oh, we've got to be better now because we're not we know our place in the universe now." And I don't see that happening at all. And I think that what the examples you gave are perfect examples of the divide and why both sides are not ready for it. Is that I I hate how everybody's talking about, oh, they're angels and they're demons now. You know, you got the evangelicals that are all about that because now I see that, okay, we're going to reveal these this nuclear weapon technology and they're going to go it's demonic. The Satan made these weapons and you know, they're going to take it to this extreme angle. I already see it happening, right? And then the other side, you've already Tucker Carlson keeps talking about how, oh, where did nuclear weapons come from? We don't know where nuclear weapons came from. It must have been demons whispered nuclear weapons into the ears of our scientists. Jackass, go study the history of nuclear physics in Nazi Germany. That's where nuclear weapons came from. >> That was unless you think the Nazis are you think the Nazis are demons, our entire post-war military-industrial complex is based on them. So, we incorporated the demons thoroughly if that's the case. And we'd be nothing without them. >> That's the thing that you you nailed it, which is if Tucker is right, then we are the demons. We are the Satan that is the one making the weapon. Ver Warner von Braun made NASA came over here from the the Nazis. Like guys, that's the thing that I And so I heard that too and I got really triggered kind of like you just did right there as well. And I am I'm worried about that narrative spreading. And then I guess on the other side, I'm just worried that the the libtarted, you know, brainwashed people that are out there that are they don't even know what they're protesting. You know, they have no I feel like they don't even have any purpose anymore. They're just out there looking for a reason. On the positive side, I could see this giving people purpose is that if we if they were to admit that we have this technology, people would go, "Oh, wow. Star Trek, we could actually Star Trek is a real thing that we could be trying to achieve. Now, I could see it giving these people some level of hope. But the flip side is these are the kinds of people that won't believe anything unless the authority tells them. And the problem is the authority is not the people they believe now. >> They're only going to believe it if like Joe Biden's corpse comes out and says, "Yep, the aliens are real and we've got this technology." They're never going to believe it if Trump says it, you know? So, we've got ourselves stuck in this situation where we >> this is what blackpills me the most is I don't see a path forward where we're going to get to a point where we can manage this as a civilization. And this is the main reason why I wanted to talk to you from a philosophical perspective about, you know, is humanity even ready for this technology and when will we be? I think the gatekeepers might be right. I think that all the stuff we've talked about about the suppression since the 60s, I think it might all be with good reason. I think that people in the 60s when they figured this out and maybe even before that, they met in a smoky room, right? The MJ12 or the Jsons or whoever it was and they decided this is too dangerous. We're not ready for this. And they probably built a plan like probably Edward Teller was making plans about what year is this going to be? Okay. and 2050 comes along, then we'll release this bit of information about it. You know, I could totally see a scenario where that plays out. And then so for me, the scary part is like, okay, well, am I even doing the right thing in revealing this? And I've kind of come to the conclusion that we just, like I said, we have to teach people. We have to demystify it. We can't we can't pretend like we're going to be the ones to reveal disclosure. Instead, it has to be a learning and awakening process. And I think that that doesn't happen from us talking about demons. And it doesn't happen about us talking about little green men from other planets. I think it happens from us talking about the science, right? Talking about the science and the physics of it and the history of it. >> I think that's what will bring it down to earth for people and that's where people will be able to absorb it. >> Because here's what I think will happen. If we, let's just say we get this disclosure right off the bat, all this technology comes out right away. I mean, just think about the impacts of this. You're going to have possibly wars are going to break out right over this technology. I think you'd agree on that. >> You're going to have economic collapse. Every power source now all like what happens to the the value of companies that are using obsolete technology goes to zero >> overnight. >> And then uh I think the the big thing is that people's minds are going to break. Like people's minds will actually break. And you've already seen people's minds breaking over relatively trivial matters in politics. If you were to tell them like, "Hey, yeah, we actually like hid all this technology from you and sorry about that. Like, we've kind of been lying without lying to you directly, >> people are going to actually like, you know, spoil like uh, you know, warning risk here or whatever, but they're going to hurt themselves, right? They're going to like take their own lives potentially, like a significant number of people, not like you know, >> right?" >> So, I look at and I I see all those and this is where Hal Pudof was on Joe Rogan. Hal Putoff went on Joe Rogan and he's talking about I think he told the story where he went to DC and they all the spooks met up together and they were like oh they just put some numbers on the page and they were like oh turns out all it's negative outcome so we're just not going to do disclosure. To me, that was the greatest Hal Pudof mentioned because you're just like, this is how flippant they are about a topic that this is this huge is like, we're just going to decide this by having a bunch of old white dudes go in a room and put some numbers on a page and then if it comes out negative, well then, sorry, no free energy for the world this year, this decade. [laughter] Go ahead. What are your thoughts? >> Yeah, listen, a bunch of old white dudes, that's true. But if I recall correctly, that happened under Obama. And I can understand that Obama being the first black president of the United States didn't want to be responsible for the destruction of the economy of the United States and absolute social mayhem. Right? So he's the last person who's going to agree to be the disclosure president, especially after putoff and company presented him with this study showing how catastrophic the consequences of disclosure would be. So yeah, I agree with you and I really increasingly believe that the only way forward is if we can look is humanity ready for disclosure? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely. under absolutely under no circumstances in a world where you know like what half the world is Muslim and like you know like Africa's in the state that it's in and um you know Indians believe in the davas you know they literally worship the entities which we can see in the Mahabarata and Ramayana are associated with UFOs and antiquity right so if any entity emerge immediately they're going to fall down flat on their face and raise their arms and worship them right in a world where China if it's told by whatever overlords this is the celestial hierarchy we are your ancestors we have the mandate of heaven they're going to get their entire hive-minded population to fall in line with that and they're going to then perpetuate tyranny over the rest of the planet with whatever hegemonic means they have okay in such a world humanity is not ready for disclosure. No question about it. >> Now, is the culture of Star Trek ready for disclosure? Is the country of Star Wars ready for disclosure? Maybe. Maybe some subset of Americans who truly represent the American pioneering frontier spirit are ready to step into a wider world and do whatever it takes to retain their independence. But in order to protect that culture and to secure its dominance even in our own territory, let alone globally, what's going to have to take place is a coup d'eta. It's going to have to be a coup d'eta. There is no way forward but for somehow us to inspire a coup within the American deep state and identify the individuals who in their heart of hearts still believe in the American spirit and you know the manifest destiny of America in the sense in which Manley P. Paul understood it when he talked about the secret destiny of America. You know where on the obverse of our great seal it says no ordo seclorum a new order of the ages. Is that America still alive? Are there people in these deep black projects in this emerging breakaway civilization who still believe in that vision of the future and are willing to fight for it? That's ultimately the question is whether there's a a vision can emerge that's both inspiring enough and constructive enough to compel some of these people to carry out a coupeta. >> Yeah, >> that's the only way. And I'm sorry to tell you it's going to be extremely ugly. It's going to be ugly domestically and it's going to be absolutely horrific globally. Horrific globally. People talk about the American Empire, especially the lefties, these lefties, communist, socialist, the American empire. this the American empire that folks, you have no clue what an American empire would look like >> if one actually ever emerged with with autonic fusion technology. You have no clue. And whether or not an American empire actually emerges in a constructive and positive sense will depend on whether you know a philosophically sophisticated vision that distills the essence of Star Trek and Star Wars and their visions of the future can actually win the hearts and minds of some of the maybe younger people within the extent power structure. Hm. Really well said. And I think this is why I've now moved my focus towards a neutronic fusion is that I think that atronic fusion is basically tapping directly into zero point energy. Tapping into an unlimited energy source that is out there and will change everything. Now I already said that there's all these negative reasons why disclosure can never happen. You even agreed. And I think one of the other ones that I didn't even mention was the legal implications. This gets mentioned by the UFO people too is that oh well it turns out Loheed Martin for example built a compact fusion reactor. Charles Chase built it for him in 2014. It went dark in 2018 but his resume says that it was successful and it's breathing on its own. So he built a compact fusion reactor for them. So what happens to Loheed Martin when it turns out that the government's been playing favorites for 60 years and now that's the only reason why they're a, you know, whatever billion dollar company that they are. They're going to get sued. they're going to get sued. So, you've built these perverse incentive structures where now the corporations that have been developing this technology for the military-industrial complex, they don't want it to come out because they're going to go bankrupt if they do. They're shareholders. They're beholden to their shareholders. So, that's a big concern for me. But, I think disclosure is going to happen anyway. And I think that they know it and that's what they're afraid of. I think that when they put those dates out there, they say 2027, 2030, whatever. They don't know the exact date, but what they know is that we're not ready, but the information, the technology is advancing so fast, they can't slow it down enough. That yes, it's been 60 years. That may seem like a long time, but in the cosmic scheme of the universe, that's just the blink of an eye. And that yes, they've been hiding for 60 years, but I think that they hoped that they could hide it for hundreds of years as opposed to hiding it for just 60. I think they know, especially now with AI, that the AI is soon going to start spitting out the answers to these gravitational, the AI can pretty much do what you and I are doing at this point already. And so it's going to start spitting these answers out and people are going to be going, "But wait, no, nukes shouldn't be able to manipulate spaceime. They didn't tell me they could do that." And the AI be like, "Yeah, Ken, they figured it out. It was, you know, RTOR and and Knuckles and what have you." So I think that's the thing. And then with respect to, well, how does it change? I also want to address this last this point and then I I think we can do some final thoughts here as well. This is kind of my final thoughts is that >> I agree that it's never going to come out from the current power structure as it's been developed because they built the system in a way for it to never be able to come out and that's how they were able to hide it for 60 years. But that's the way there's no pathway for it to come out legally. And I think that's why you're seeing the Hal Pudofs, the Eric Davises. Eric Davis just had an interview yesterday where he said he would need either an executive order or a pardon before he would go talk to Congress because otherwise he would lose his pension, go to prison, etc. >> So, I think that that's part of the reason is that the system was set up in a way for it to never be able to come out, which means that the only way we could get it out is basically a coup d'etat or some sort of overthrowing of the system. And I'm that's what I'm afraid of because I I think that would be very ugly like you mentioned. Go ahead. Yes, it'll be very ugly, but there's absolutely no other way forward. And you know, what you started to say, you know, at the beginning of that in terms of locked and litigation is just another example of it. I mean look there is no way that our current legal structure and even our current uh you know corporate uh organization and infrastructure like corporate organiz in a sense of like electricity providers you know the petroleum industry the auto industry like this everything. you're going to need to like fundamentally re-engineer our society. And that cannot happen except around a new idea or a new interpretation of the American idea. Otherwise, if it happens in a vacuum, it's going to only lead to one place and one place fast, and that's totalitarianism. Okay? In other words, just brute totalitarianism with no greater vision or idea behind it. Uh so again I return to the to to my closing thought that what we are in need of in this country more than anything else is a new philosophical vision of the American destiny of what it was that the founders of this country who were brilliant wise men were reaching toward as best as they could in an era before Darwin. Okay, we need a post Darwinian, post Heisenbergian, you know, evolutionary quantum understanding of uh the relationship between man and the cosmos that the founders of this country intuited rightly. That's what we need. And until and unless certain elements of our deep state can be inspired by that, there's no way forward. Couldn't agree more, Jason. I think this has been my favorite conversation that I've ever had on my podcast. We seem to have bangers every single time. So, I just want to thank you so much for this conversation. I just want to give you a quick minute to uh plug, you know, your content where people can find you and get in touch with you. Uh and and just thank you once again so so much for this conversation. So, go ahead. Uh Jason Resza Georgiani on Substack and uh Jason Georgiani on X and my latest book uh Thanosis um there are links to that on exit actually just came out today officially it's a book on death rebirth and the afterlife very metaphysical uh Ashton my thanks also to you for your intrepid very courageous and tenacious research um I know that it doesn't win a lot of friends sometimes But I applaud you for it. >> Thank you very much, sir. Let's do this again soon. >> Thank you very much.