Where are the ALIENS? SETI, AI, and the Breakaway Civilization | Hard Truth w/ Wyatt Meldman-Floch

Video Transcript

Hey everybody, this is Ashen Forbes. Welcome to another Hard Truths podcast. My guest today is Wyatt Meldman Flock. He is a former SETI uh researcher and now is the CEO of Reality, a blockchain company. Uh he also has personal connection to Tri Alpha Energy, the fusion company that we've been researching for a long time. Looking forward to this conversation. Wyatt, thank you for joining me today. How are you doing, brother? >> Hi. Doing great. Great to be here. Thanks. Well, let's just start right off with the SETI connection. So, you were an intern or you worked at SETI once upon a time. Is that true? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And what did you learn? Because I think that a lot of people out there have different perspectives and views on SETI. I mean, the idea if you're not familiar with SETI is that we are they were looking for, you know, either techno signatures or messages from other civilizations out there in the universe. And I think it was in the was the wow signal in the 70s or the 90s whenever that was. >> Wow. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. I mean I don't know the specific date but that was like probably one of the first um you know big kind of things that they picked up and um yeah I mean also like you know obviously like there is that component to like looking for aliens and stuff and um like you know my project was one of those projects. Um, I also did like another one, kind of a more boring one where I was just sort of like doing some data engineering for the Kepler spacecraft. Um, but they're also like an astrobiology institute. So they they're really just trying to understand like how does life actually emerge in different environments? Um, you know, like out in space. >> What is your thoughts on that? Well, how do you think what I mean? Do you think why have we not had success since the wow signal? And does it have to do with how life evolves elsewhere? because it doesn't necessarily have to evolve like it does here. So, I think that one criticism that people would have of SETI is you'd say, well, we're assuming that aliens are like us. We're looking for signals that we put out there. It's kind of like saying, well, if we're looking for Native Americans, we should be, you know, we should look for smoke signals or whatever, like or like, you know, assuming that the Native Americans would be using electromagnetism when they're using smoke signals, stuff like that. Like, is that a possibility for why we haven't seen aliens? And has said ever considered that? What do you think from the behind closed doors? But yeah, I mean I guarantee you I mean they they have considered this um and it's like a big thing we've like talked about. So I mean so the first thing that everybody was looking for was like radio you know um signals and like obviously like they're not going to be sending out like sports broadcast or whatever like you know how our stuff sort of emanating from you know our our solar system. Um but it was a good first place to start and um I uh I know that um yeah they're definitely trying to expand to to newer things. Um the thing that I made actually was um kind of interesting because uh it uses pure information theory that you can apply to any kind of you know I don't know type of information whether it's like radio or just you know some kind of like spectral signal or whatnot. Um and uh specifically used the work that um uh John C. Lily did uh to you know model animal communication. Um which is a pretty wild story like the whole you know the dolphins and the whole thing. I think there was a drunk history about it. It's pretty funny. Um, and I think uh I forget your data, but it's great. But, um, no, what's really cool is that, um, in, you know, just the universe in general and especially in information theory, there's these certain patterns that sort of emerge. Um you know and specifically in like dynamical systems and uh you know we have this thing called chaos theory where certain kind of like highly improbable states of your system um are possible which sort of like break through um what we think is possible and like you know an ordinary dynamical system um I could I don't know I hope that sort of made sense but like in in regular information theory there's like certain patterns um of like entropy that show up and when things start to deviate from the distribution of like ordinary entropy then you know that you have some type of like a signal and so um basically I was looking at something called like um engrams. Uh so essentially like if you take a wave you can basically break up the wave into a collection of certain patterns and as those patterns start to show um like a not random you know sort of like distribution then you know that there's some type of information encoding inside of there. Um and uh as an example like if you look at like you know like squirrels or like you know something that we would consider a more like primitive form of life um they have a more like you know uh kind of like random distribution of the signals that they you know show in um their actual communication. Then when you get to humans and specifically like dolphins and whales um they have a much higher um kind of likeformational complexity in their language. Like whales I believe um are actually the most complex uh communication on earth. So um basically with the thing that I made um which I guess this is like right when I left that they were going to put it on the Allen telescope array um they would basically pipe the actual like data from those satellites through this model and I built a binary classifier. So what that means is that like you know as data is coming in um like a stream uh it takes a look at certain like chunks basically of the data stream and if a chunk seems to have some type of informationational complexity that's like a lot higher than a baseline um it'll it'll sort of like make us sick like it'll flag it as something. So yeah. >> So to explain that for the viewers who may not understand what we're talking about here essentially we're looking for patterns. So you're saying that we don't even need to know what language what they're speaking because we can just sample the data, the information, the noise, and we can determine if it's truly random or if there's some structure to it. And if there's structure to it, that means someone is possibly sending us a message. So what you're saying here is that if we just map like the thermal spectrum, if we're seeing something that looks abnormal, then maybe that's a message. We might not know what it says, >> but just like with the Native Americans, we can tell there's a smoke signal that's being shot on this guy. We don't know what it means. It means something, right? >> Yeah. >> And this reminds me of one of my earliest criticisms said I'm a big critic of SETI because I just I haven't seen any results and I don't I think they were not looking the right way. I don't remember what TV show it was, but I want to say like early 2000s and somebody was pointing out essentially what you just mentioned. They said, "We're taking all this data and information, but we don't know what we're looking for. So maybe we just have to look at that data in a different way and we'll find that there was a secret message there the whole time." And I kept thinking about that because I think that as humans we always have this tendency to assume the aliens are going to be just like us but in reality they may be completely different. They may use different technologies etc. So I always thought that was a compelling answer to the fermy paradox. Why don't we see the aliens everywhere? Well, we are they are out there. We're just the primitive ones not on their level. We're not using their technology or ways we can communicate with them. And our technologies are just too slow. Like people will say like oh >> like the first radio or the first television broadcast still like hasn't even gone it's only like a hundred light years away or something. It's barely gotten anywhere. So even by our technology there's just no way we could communicate. >> So let me ask this. >> Actually I have two different questions. I think I want to start with >> another thought that I've had that I haven't really heard other people say is that >> what if there's another answer? What if that's wrong? What if it turns out that there's something like most aliens that evolve don't evolve on the outside of their planet? This is something I think a lot of people discount. >> Yeah. >> Like we're on the outside of our planet. There's the outer space is right up there and there's nothing between us and outer space except for the air. >> And we're not underwater. We're not under a layer of rock. What if most civilizations start like evolve underwater? What if they evolve in this in the inside the planet inside the crust and they don't even know that there's a universe out there? What about something like that? Have you ever considered that? >> Yeah, 100%. I mean, I if I had to guess, I think um yeah, I mean, look, the the reality of the situation here is that the probability of having like a surface on your planet that's like habitable or like hospitable for like our type of life is like is really low. But having like you know heat jets inside of like an ocean that um you know certain types of bacteria at least can like get their energy from like the thermal heat is um at least conceptually um you know I think it'd be a lot more um like it happened more often especially considering just how you know a lot of you know actual planets and whatnot don't have super strong uh atmospheres and they're getting pelted by rocks all the time. Um I I would I would assume that's like highly you know much more more probable. Um so yeah I mean and I think a lot of people too at SEI would totally agree. Um you know everybody there I will also just say and this is kind of like my own personal experience. It's starting to become more common um especially since the Epstein stuff is that like people are there's certain you know people who are controlling access to funding inside of science and sort of labeling like really great kind of cool ideas is like pseudocience or like quackery and whatnot. Um like I really wanted I was going to get a PhD in like quantum engineering and quantum information theory and um you know obviously like I had other reasons like I ended up just getting a job working in tech. Um I did a I bought a half a master's degree and did did a bunch of research but like people you know like my professors would tell me like you know what you want to work on like is sick and I think everybody here totally wants to do it. Like I wanted to make wormholes out of synthetic quantum fields. Um because essentially like when you entangle quantum states they create a space-time geometry which like you could theoretically turn into something like a Klein Gordon bottle and um yeah I mean you could have that thing kind of like spit out you know like the metaphor inside of that movie Alien or whatnot and right in the beginning where they like pierce a piece of paper like you you could theoretically like you know do some experiments to try and figure that out but like if you try to go get funding for that like nobody's going to fund it because they're just like oh this dude's a quack or something and it's like no it's actually just like cool and I think people are really just you passionate and inspired by this and there's like this weird you know same thing um who's the guy um Eric or I think it's Eric Weinstein who's been talking about that too like why aren't people looking at quantum gravity yeah why the [ __ ] isn't anyone looking at anything but string theory it's like it doesn't make any sense um I mean the real talk is that string theory really helps us solve problems in differential geometry which is like the mathematics that like bases all of like physics and engineering and stuff but like it's pretty clearly obvious that that's been like manipulated and I think it was like Georgiani or thing. I don't know it was on your show or somebody else was talking about how like Gileain Maxwell's dad owned like Springer Link or whatnot and kind of had like final say on who got published and whatnot. And I mean these these coincidences like when they start to pile up you're just like no man there there's too many coincidences for it to not be something. So I think a lot of people at SETI and NASA especially have a lot of really cool ideas that like you know they kind of have to keep their [ __ ] mainstream to maintain funding and sort of like maintain like you know just like respect of the wider scientific um you know world which is both a shame but also like at least I can say from Sandy they're doing a lot of really great stuff with astrobiology. So um they're they're great people and it was like my first real job and they hired me when I was a teenager so thank you. So do you think that there's a lot other people or a lot of people at SETI that have that same view that like we could be doing more but it's we have to be careful about what we push because it would be considered pseudocience and we have to keep it all mainstream. I can say with a 100% like guarantee that not just at SETI but just at NASA in general and like everybody in like the particle physics world and the quantum world that I did like my you know actual course work in would completely agree that like you have to basically tow the line of what's acceptable in order to get your like lab funded. Um which just like kind of sucks. So it's just the reality of the situation. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not even going to push back because I mean that's what I've seen. Every single engineer that I've researched and watched and and learned from, they all say the same thing. They they go so far as to say like you have to be careful how you word stuff in your patents because the patent office will immediately just reject anything they consider to be against the laws of thermodynamics, >> which is just wild to me that we live in a world where that much control exists, especially over something that I don't even think is controversial anymore. maybe 20 years ago, but quantum entanglement, quantum technologies. I mean, I just reviewed a quantum radar that China has now mass- prodduced that is an EPR device, and I'm just sitting here wondering like how people are just ignoring that China's rolling out quantum radars. Yeah. >> Meanwhile, like you said, if you were to probably propose some type of search based on quantum technologies, they would, you know, people would say, "Oh, well, that's pseudocience. That's nonsense." I maybe not today, but 10 years ago, possibly. Yeah. No, 100%. I sent you that paper too. Um that guy in in Japan who made like a well both theoretically and now it's been like proven with um like a simulated or like a quantum simulated analing you know programming language that um this guy basically made like a gauge field or like a he made a way to couple like the Cmir effect uh like background radiation with like a quantum computer which would essentially make like a free energy device. Um, and it's gone from both like mathematics to like actual like at least um using like one of these like simulated quantum languages and it's like it's worked out. So like I hope this guy gets funding because like it it's only becoming more and more probable that like that could [ __ ] work and it's just like why not? I mean like what's more important than that? So um yeah, I hope he's I hope he gets lucky. Well, so if the government like if this techn quantum technologies work and there is a whole another method of searching, wouldn't that imply that like the government already had it? Probably the military already had it. Like this is what scares me about this is that you say, okay, we failed at searching. Maybe we're fundamentally looking in the wrong way. There should be life everywhere. If there's life here, but then the problem comes up. Well, if the government has these quantum, I mean, China's already rolling out quantum radar, means we definitely have it. then we probably should be able to see those civilizations. Which brings me back to the UFO topic. And then people may ask, well, Ashton's just using buzzwords, so let me be very specific. I'm talking about highfrequency gravitational wave detectors, which we could use as telescopes and use as communication methods as well. Have you ever heard has that ever been brought up? High frequency gravitational wave detectors. And what do you think about the idea of like, well, >> the military is 20 years advanced. Don't they have this? But >> yeah, the gravitational wave stuff is really cool. that came out um right around there was some like Bose Einstein condensate [ __ ] like maybe like 15 years ago or something. That was kind of like when I was still doing physics, but um yeah, so I mean like the gravitational wave detectors that are out there um they seem to work. There's also a lot of stuff sort of related to that with neutrinos. Um >> I mean look here's here's the real talk is like it's it's just really clear that like you know the mainstream science world and like what's going on in like the deep black government are like two different things. And um you know I did some like military contracting and stuff and I can also say that just like in general even the like mainstream department of defense stuff is um it's not really super complex. So there there really has to be something um that's like you know akin to what I would say like a breakaway civilization or whatnot. And um it's honestly like some people I worked with in the science world have like also expressed this as well. And um just sort of the fact that like a lot of people as well who are trying to like bridge from the ordinary science world are sort of going into like the military intelligence world to to get funding because of a lot of the different like not even necessarily UFOs but like just random like orbs and drones and stuff that they're seeing especially over like Europe and whatnot. Um and people are pretty spooked and they don't really like know where they're coming from but like it's very clearly obvious that there's like some type of um just something going on. And like you know a lot of people too um just some people like I can say without naming any names or anything just connected to that whole kind of like NASA studi world they really think that um you know there is like a lot of these UFOs and these things that we're seeing are just like humans and whatnot. Um and uh yeah a lot of stuff kind of gets covered up and it's fishy and um you can't say anything but like people sort of witness it firsthand. >> H so why do you say that there must be a breakway? Is it just because we're that that assumption that what we're seeing must be human or is it that like I guess the reason why I'm asking is that when I talk to like smart connected wealthy people you know they the thing I always hear back from them is there's no way the government could be hiding these secrets. It's too inefficient the government is if you've se they always tell me if you've seen the government you know there's no way they could do this which by the way guys I'm a government contractor myself. I've worked with the government a lot. I know the inefficiencies as a government, but my opinion is that doesn't mean they couldn't pull it off. I guess what I'm I'm kind of leading the question here, but my opinion is that there is an elite group of very smart people that know how to compartmentalize information. They know how to use the defense contractors to keep that information sequestered from FOYA, etc. And then that to me would be the breakaway civilization that those people that are all really smart, they don't see that because it's all underneath the surface. Is that kind of what you're talking about or do you have a different perspective? >> No, no, 100%. And also like I'm I'm just sort of like talking like water cooler talk with like people I used to work with just sort of sharing their personal anecdotes. Um and um you know so I'll also mention another one too. So when I was like working at SEI I had a really great buddy who was like also an intern at like Lockheed or whatnot. And um you know they you know when you sort of get in the system cuz he was like getting a masters or PhD or something. He was going to like go work for them. They basically like put you in a room with like a light on your face and they're just like if you leak anything like we're just gonna, you know, disappear you or whatnot. And um at least that's what he told me happened when he got in. I don't know. But the real talk here to you mentioned is that like these private organizations are like immune to foyer requests. So there's like no way that anybody can even figure that figure like without what's going on. But um I mean you should all like it's really just worth mentioning too that like the intelligence agencies are also like whether in cahoots is not even strong enough like they're basically like you know organized crime syndicates um like you know whether it's managing the cartels or just like the way in which the underground or the world works. these organizations like are so immune to everything. Like they can off presidents like everybody knows it at this point. Like what we think is like the government isn't even really the government. Like and it all sort of really boils down to World War II. Um and that stuff's really been coming out lately which I think is awesome. I've really been kind of like deep in it myself. But um yeah, whether it's like NORAD or just like the CIA and stuff, like these individuals live in a different world outside of like our reality. And um their entire job is literally manipulating our reality in order to make sure that we don't become aware of it. Um and that's that's just the honest to God truth. So, >> let me add on to that because today, this morning, while we were asleep, the United States of America did a special forces operation in the capital of Venezuela and literally kidnapped the president Maduro of Venezuela and his wife and has extradited them to United States. Presumably, they've got the blindfolds on, the ear things, and they can't hear anything. And I think if you would have asked people a week ago if they thought that was possible, that could happen, 99% of people said, "No way. No way. Are you kidding me? That kidnap a president of a foreign country? No way." And we just did it in like three hours in the middle of the night with Chinuks or hell or Blackhawks or whatever shooting missiles down on the capital city. So people do not give our intelligence and military-industrial complex enough credit. By the way, it didn't take any magical orbs to pull it off either. They just did it with conventional weaponry. >> Yeah. I mean, look, that's like literally like the tip of the iceberg. Like, what is that extraordinary rendition from the '9s? Like, dude, we've been overthrowing governments forever. Like, that's that's the whole the whole shtick. Um, I'm not even like talking about that. I just mean like like literally like ever since like the world was rebuilt since like World War II, like you know, a lot of people don't know this, but like the Nazis like intelligence agency like merged with the OSS to make the CIA. Allen Dulles was over like in Nazi Germany like during the war. Like all these things just like don't Oh, by the way, like American industrialists were like still funding them the whole time. Um I mean it's just it just keeps adding up. Like the bottom line here is that like you know I mean like what we think is the truth. You know what we see on the web is verifiably false. It's verifiably propaganda. Um, regardless of what your politics are and like the 2020 election, it is a fact that major int like tech organizations manipulated, you know, what you saw on the web. They manipulated your reality and you know, it's if you deny it at this point, you're just like, you know, there's no denying it. I mean, we can talk about the psychology of why people do, but that's honestly kind of like why I'm into like what I did with my blockchain. talk about it later, but like there is like a kind of change happening right now. Like there is a disclosure that is happening. It's not like what you're hearing with the grush testimony and that stuff. Um I don't really know too much about that guy, but um the real talk here is that like the understanding that like our reality is is fake is becoming more and more clear by the day and you know we as like a society and a community need to like create our own information processing systems. um and just infrastructure for like a new civilization ourselves to combat this, you know, breakaway civilization that's been manipulating our reality. Um and we can't, >> you know, what if that's the disclosure? What if disclosure is about us learning that we've been living in a carefully orchestrated lie? Like, can you imagine that it comes out that like we solve fusion? I'm just making up an example. Say we solve fusion and it turns out like, whoa, we're getting way more energy out than we thought. physics can't explain this. Now we've got to figure out where physics went wrong. And then we find out like, oh, the government knew about this for like 40, 50, 60 years and just decided not to tell us because they thought it would hurt our feelings too much or something, you know, like that would be mindblowing to me. That's way more mindblowing than aliens existing. Although, for sure, aliens existing is big. >> And then you said Go ahead. >> No, no, you go. You go. Well, I was going to say you mentioned the Nazis because this is what I talked about Jason Grojani a lot about. I do want to say people were upset about that because they thought I spoke too much during that interview. That was agreed that we were going to have a back and forth, he and I, on that for people that were wondering. >> Um, but I agree because even Warner von Braun went and started na NASA, you know, the precursor to NASA is you see all this influence and then now I can I I'll just go ahead and piece to the story together here. Ronald Richtor supposedly saw some secret plasma experiment with the Nazis and next thing you know he's going to Argentina to build an autronic fusion reactor for Juan Coron. >> This is in the 50s. >> And then you've got Farnsworth fuser which is an inertial electrostatic fusion device that Pho who invented the television built in in 1956. And then the US government went and Ronald Ricker's whole thing gets shut down. It gets called pseudocience. the government steals all his research. People go look at the lab and they can tell it's 100% a legit legit nuclear experimental lab with huge magnets and things like that going on. And then we've got our United States nuclear weapons scientists, people like Loa Woods and um uh some of these others that I've been talking about on my streams essentially took this technology in my opinion, turned it into bombs, turned it into fusion bombs. And then the problem is well now we've built a fusion bomb out of it and now it's a weapon. So how you can't release this? Because if you release this power, this energy source now people can turn it into uh bombs potentially miniaturaturize it and turn it to like scientific or you know sci-fi weapons that even President Trump says you know we have weapons that nobody can explain that nobody understands. So that's my approach of what happened and what I wanted to ask you about >> is that I started following this path of this uh inertial confinement fusion inertial electrostatic confinement fusion. It led me this guy named Dr. Robert Bousard. He wor he had this idea for a autronic fusion ramjet that could fly to other solar systems and it would collect hydrogen in space and use that as a fusion fuel. And everybody discredited this enough hydrogen in outer space. You'd have to make this net that this funnel that would be as big as a planet in order to pull enough hydrogen in. And I just thought, wait, why do we care about it going to Mars? Why not just have your fusion engine fly around on Earth? There's plenty of hydrogen in our air and the water, etc. So, I look at this guy, I'm like, this is weird. Like, this guy seems to have figured out something major. He was working with the DoD, working with Navy, you know, they could have had his technology. And he died. He died in 2007. And this guy takes over uh his research. Jay Young Park, Korean guy, Dr. Jay Young Park and he did two more fusion reactors. It was like the WB 1 through six and he did seven and eight after Dr. Busousar died. The company ended up going defunct in 2019 and 2019 Jay Young Park leaves obviously Polywell and he joins Trialpha Energy which is wild because there's been so much news about Tria Energy and you reached out to me. We spoke before several weeks ago >> and you know you have a personal connection to trial energy and you know we were working on trying to get in touch with them and seeing if I could you know get some more information for Alpha Energy because I'm very excited about this fusion and turns out Trump media group just merges with them buys them and it turns out this guy that went that worked at Polywell joined Trial Alpha Energy in 2019 and so I'm sitting here trying to figure out what is the fusion that these guys have figured out? What is the exact method that works? And I'm ready to say it's probably a combination of magneto inertial confinement fusion and inertial electrostatic fusion which is basically static electricity mixed with magnetism. And I think that all these companies I think that uh Polywell had it figured out. I think that Trialpha knows that it works and probably are just trying to find a commercial way to make it work. Helian Fusion is also doing something extremely similar to them. So all these companies I think are trying to get this to work. They know what it requires to make it work. They know on the inside this breakaway civilization has this but it's got to be released in a way that is been blessed by the by the powers that be. Um what are your thoughts on that timeline or any of that? Yeah, I mean um so look, I mean I'm not really like an insider. Like I know a lot of people there. Um so like my fiance's grandfather founded TAE and her dad was like the I think like longest running CEO and like was a CFO and whatnot. Um I'm actually like in his office ironically um in San Diego. >> Wait, your girlfriend's dad founded TAE? >> Uh her grandfather did was like um like the longest running CEO, her her father. But yeah, I'm in her dad's old office right now, ironically. I have some merch and stuff or like just stuff I can show you or whatever. But um I don't know. I hear all these stories and stuff. Um I mean look, here's the real talk. Like I I don't I don't know anything about something nefarious or like connected to like deep government stuff. What I can tell you is that um corporate espionage is like a real deal and um they've done a lot of work in China and in Russia. So like just um there is you know like exchange and things that happen at least on like a national level that's like it just it does happen and I I can't speak to anything specifically but like I think you know obviously like they're probably like the most successful like you know fusion company of all time. They've been around for like 30 years and you know honestly having an exit I will just say like it's it's so hard to do a it's so hard to do a hardware play. I I dude doing a a nuclear fusion hardware play is probably got to be the hardest company like in history but you know they had a successful exit which is amazing. Um and uh yeah I mean in terms of just like you know do I do I necessarily think that like you know this like breakaway civilization or whatnot is like getting information from public companies? Um no I honestly don't. And if I had to guess, I think, look, I think that it would be highly more advantageous for them if they like understood things like this to try and sabotage um commercial applications of this technology. The reason why, and the point I was going to get at too is like they want to manipulate markets. That's what this is all about is just controlling the global economy. I mean, like what's what do you do? What do you do if you have access to information and you have an information asymmetry that is just light years beyond the ordinary world? You manipulate the stock market. You manipulate money creation. You make everybody a wage slave and then you basically just you know create your own world where you know whether it's like you know there's a great argument to say that the cartels um you know create a lot of money for these deep black you know governments. I think fundamentally like the connection to the Federal Reserve um just debasing like you know global currencies and then also having these individuals have their like fingers in the cookie pot of the commodities markets makes probably even more sense. Um >> but uh there's one thing I'll mention too just really quickly is that and this is something I like did some work on myself I can talk about. I created my own like decentralized exchange um that's kind of like in my own blockchain and what's really cool about it is that it prevents information asymmetry where basically um in every single like stock market or any single kind of like you know exchange in history since like the dawn of capitalism since like John Lock um there has been an information asymmetry which means that the people who run the exchange have have knowledge of how people are trading before actual traders have knowledge about the other traders. So there is a like a constant arbitrage opportunity that is inherent in NASDAQ. It's inherent in the S&P 500. It's inherent in Binance. Um and there's a really great um uh mathematician um his last name is Ellererman and he was a big quantum mechanics guy, but he was also like applied math. And he wrote this amazing paper like in the 80s, I think it was 1980 that I reference all the time. And he was basically just like you know if you think about a market the same way that you think about just like electromagnetism and the way in which like you know the universe works think about how energy exchange works in the electromagnetic spectrum right and he was basically showed that like the EM field is almost kind of like an economy itself and the way in which um you know uh like I guess you could say like the polarization of electrons inside of you know an actual electro like an electric component of the EM field is sort of like a market that is like, you know, prevents information asymmetry. Um, and so he was basically able to reformulate how a market should work with certain guarantees um to prevent that. And I thought it was so cool and you know, for other reasons, too. I just like actually built a exchange that uses that. So part of the whole thing, you know, maybe it's my hippie [ __ ] I don't know, but like the world needs this. um you know like everything from just like the information we consume to just the way in which we like do our finances is getting manipulated from the top down and um you know now it's time for all of us to make a choice to uh start using systems that are unmanipulatable. >> No, I totally agree and I think that's part of the reason why I joined X. Um and and that's why I do most of my content on X. I mean, I'm pretty much a ghost on the other social media platforms because I felt like X at the time was the only platform where we potentially wouldn't be censored for talking about physics, science, talking about a missing airplane that disappeared, talking about fusion potentially being covered up because if, like you said, there is a breakway civilization, if the CIA is controlling world markets, which I think that they are absolutely, they're also controlling the flow of information um in any way that they can. And that's why you need to have a decentralized platform that you can communicate with and share information on that can't be manipulated by the three-letter agencies. I don't know if such a thing exists, but it's a certainly a noble cause to try to make that happen. Um, and to show an example of this, kind of going back to the fusion thing, because there was another point I wanted to bring up on that was that um, cold fusion was announced by Pawns and Flesh in 1989. It's a bit of a misnomer because it doesn't mean that it's necessarily uh cold, just means that it's colder than what we would expect fusion to occur. And um George Miley was one of these Black Project engineers. He was actually called to testify to Congress. I'm going to be reviewing his congressional testimony next week. And uh I just thought it was interesting to just show you how these guys are all connected. I was looking up like the origins of Polywell and Trialpha Energy. And I find this 2007 conference that's about inertial electrostatic fusion where George Miley was the, you know, the keynote speaker or the one who was putting it all together. And in there there's a paper at a presentation by uh Thomas Maguire. He ended up seven years after this in 2014 he built a compact fusion reactor for Loheed Martin. And you just go like oh wait a minute like this guy was completely unknown in 2017. He was like the stewed underststudy of some other physicist and then seven years later he's building his own fusion reactor which would be successful and then go dark with Loheed Martin. And I did want to bring up you mentioned your friend for Loheed Martin. I totally believe that there is they bring you in and probably right after you sign your contract there's like okay sign this NDA now anything you do here like basically your life is over if you reveal it. Yeah, literally >> military. We sue you into non-existence. In fact, there criminal penalties from the government, right? Like that kind of thing. >> I'm pretty sure they just [ __ ] kill you, man. I mean, look at what happened with the Boeing thing. Like, that doesn't happen. You don't have three people whistleblowing immediately just like drop dead before they're about to testify in court. And it's just like, you know, it's just at some point you just have to say, "Hey, when it happened in Soviet Russia, the American media would be like, "Oh, look at what they're doing." when it's happening in America, >> you know what I mean? Like, okay, wake up. >> Like, yeah, they can do that. Like, no. And this is what I tell people. It's like, can they kill people? Yeah. They have Loheed Martin has private security forces that are like all mercs, like mercenaries basically, right? And they just, you know, I'm sure somebody calls them up, you press the speed dial on the emergency bat phone, and we need to make somebody to go away, right? And I'm sure that's a possibility. The reality is they don't even need to do that. I mean, look at me. I'm a guy out here basically exposing the United States nuclear weapon program, fusion program, saying that we've had fusion figured out for at least several decades probably and nobody's coming to take me out because nobody really a cares and number of people that understand is like minimal. Like you understand because you had a life where you've experienced some of this stuff. You've spoken to people and you're like this is not all adding up. >> But most people on the street, they got no idea, man. you start talking about fusion, they don't even know what that means, right? Uh people don't even realize that all the power we generate is basically just by steam today. Like people have this idea in their head. So unfortunately the reality of the situation I think is that >> this level of control requires like full brainwashing essentially and it's the type of thing where you don't even have to silence people because and let's just say they did kill those Boeing whistleblowers which was really really weird by the way that those people died. What what is anyone gonna do? So, a few conspiracy theorists go on the internet and say this is a cover up. No, nothing's happening. Nobody's going after Boeing, right? >> Well, and they also like they like having like actual like whistleblowers and like I mean to to be honest like you're probably one of the like realest and best like investigative journalists out there. Um that's why I really like your show and you're more of like a debunker than anything. Um also just love that you like read academic papers on there just sort of go through it with people like that. That's just like so real. like, "Dude, look at the thing yourself. Make your own decision." Like, most people can just like pause it and Google it. But, uh, they need people like yourself that they can just call a conspiracy theorist in order to, you know, make people not take it seriously because like a lot of people like don't question, they don't believe in their own intelligence enough. Um, I had a like a mentor, my aunt Marge, Marge Leaven, she was this like writer in Detroit. Um and uh she once told me like you know about like writing like most people are actually quite intelligent and um you really should never dumb something down. You should just try to make things clear enough so that people can do their own research to understand things. Um and that's honestly like a secret to like writing great things is that don't don't leave stuff out. Just like find ways to put you know the pieces together for everyone to do their own research. And I think one of the the greatest you know everybody says like humanity people are so dumb. I think that people are just self-conscious about their intelligence. Um, and people are in general a lot smarter than they think they are. >> That's a very optimistic way to look at it. >> Well, let's test that theory then. So, you mentioned earlier uh something about wormholes. What really I think you were mentioning or you were referencing at least I took from it er equals EPR something I talk about a lot which is Einstein Rosen equals Einsteinoski Rosen >> which is this idea that maybe quantum entanglement really is just a wormhole and that just because we can't see it doesn't mean there isn't a connection between two points. Now that would require might require an extra dimension you know where we have to imagine that there's something there when there really isn't. But if if these two things that I've got here are somehow connected, that I do something to this one and something happens to this one, then isn't it just logical that there must be some bridge between these two points? What do you think about this idea of ER equals EPR? That a quantum entanglement is actually a miniature wormhole. >> Yeah, I mean I I subscribe to it. I mean, I wanted to do my research in it and I mean like this is like the holographic principle and like in reality like the universe is really only like a two-dimensional like flat surface with like a multi-dimensional like tensor going in like the perpendicular dimension at least according to that you can basically like reduce the dimensionality down to just a flat surface. Um, and you know, I don't even know if this is probable, but like it's possible in many situations to do something um, you know, where you can reduce the dimensionality down to to a flat surface. Like when we say things like universe have like x number of dimensions, like everything's totally relative based upon the problem that you're trying to solve. And like you know in differential geometry which is like doing calculus on manifolds and higher dimensional [ __ ] Um the goal really is to try and do something called a differential pullback or push forward where you parameterize the dimensions of your space in your manifold to reduce everything down as much as possible to turn it into hopefully like a two or three dimensional calculus problem. Um otherwise things get intractable and they're kind of hard. um you can do numerical integrations and stuff like that, but um you know for the most part like nobody's really doing calculus in 16 dimensions. They're trying to get really clever um about dimensionality reduction to you know make something as simple as like you know a graph cut problem. This is also true in AI as well. Um you know most of these like neural networks are just like differential pullbacks on like a large dimensional space. Um, and what they're really just doing is like gradient descent. Like you put, let me just uh example, Excel. Everybody's us Excel, right? A spreadsheet. You put some data inside of a couple of columns and then you do like a line of best fit, right? That's called like gradient descent or stoastic gradient descent. That's really like all these different um neural networks are doing, but they're doing it in high dimensions. Um, so yeah, it really kind of boils down to that most of these problems. So for people to understand the holographic principle, I hope I'm doing it justice here, but essentially some smart people did some math and they were like, hm, everything that's happening in the entire universe can be calculated. Like in theory, it may be a very very big number, but it can be calculated and it could be simulated. And if that's the case, then perhaps our universe is actually, it appears we're like in this 3D Minecraft reality. But maybe our real universe, if we were to step back from it and look down ourselves, is just a flat surface and we're actually trapped on this flat surface, we just perceive it as this three-dimensional reality. And I think they've done tests to show that the universe is flat uh like that. And this is the idea of it is that what we are is a projection, a three-dimensional holographic projection of that two-dimensional surface where the information lives on. And so this would be like essentially like people say, well, is that like a video? Is that like a simulation? Yeah, that's why people say it's a simulation because it's the equivalent of us saying like we're in the Minecraft video game, but the threedimensional reality we're presuming is not real. We're actually on a microchip inside of a computer that's flat, right? Same idea. So that's the same concept as this holographic principle. Um, and so if that's the case, this could open the door up to, you know, various wormhole concepts that might not be possible because previously we thought we were trapped, right? Like there's no way I can get from here, right here to over here without traversing this distance. But if it turns out that this is just a hologram and I just have to repro my hologram into a different location, then in theory you can go like this. >> Yeah. and reappear over here. So, holographic principle pretty cool in my opinion and they have done and it's connected to magnetism. So, when you brought this up about connecting things uh by entanglement, they're actually like Leonard Suskind and Juan Maldina who came up with the conjecture ER equals EPR, they've been looking into quantum computers because they've been they've been theorizing these quantum computers must be creating little wormholes, >> right? Um, so let me ask you to take tell me a little bit more about AI because and the and the connection to quantum computers. Is there a connection? Does AI have to be run off of quantum computers or is AI is a quantum computer AI going to be like the next evolution up? Is a quantum computer AI going to be a conscious AI? What are your thoughts? What can you teach me? Yeah, I'd love to talk about that consciousness stuff because um I actually am working on uh I just finished my own programming language which is pretty sick and I can talk about that in a bit but um I spent some time looking at it and um sort of like thinking about it from the lens of that book like I'm a strange loop. Um I don't know if anybody's out there read it but it's it's it's a great great read. I mean obviously it's not like an academic paper but like it sort of brings up some great questions about like what is an intro consciousness and um I actually wrote a section about this last night where um I had this argument that I think the way that Hoffetter describes consciousness is more of a collective consciousness in the sense where he describes it as um something like a formal system like a proof like a theorem proverming language but that also can experience causal dynamics like um you know thinking about like a distributed system processing real-time data coming in. Um, but uh it basically like my own kind of like take on what consciousness is is that like it's almost exactly like what he says, but that there needs to be a bound to the actual like computation that's happening. It needs to be haltree. It needs to be something that's objective. Um, and the collection of these different like non-halting, you know, individual consciousnesses add up to something kind of like a collective consciousness. Um, at least it's kind of like something called the the Adam Codmon or whatever, but it's really just like you think about like, you know, what is something that's like a haltree program? Um, it's a program that basically like we know it's either going to run or it's not going to run. But like, you know, how does that correlate to like the real world? Like we are haltree programs because we know that like you're either alive or you're going to die. Um, and so essentially like you can create something called like a well-founded funer. Um it's like a way of like holding computation sort of just like what an actual person is. Um and that in itself like you know can you know we can model like you know an information processing system is something like that and um anyway I sort of get into it a little bit more in this in this paper. I'm like writing a book for the language and so for anyone out there it's going to be uh it will be out by the time that this thing comes out. So take a look and um yeah come come write some code. But um yeah, I mean like in terms of the quantum computer like aspect with um like AI, I think that the the reality of the situation here is that a quantum computer like could almost be you know more or less divorced from the concept of computation. Um when you think about like what is the actual utility here like yeah you can speed up computation by like you know running algorithms on like spacetime like okay obviously yes shores factorization algorithm is like you know speeds things up. it could theoretically beat ECDSA, the um, you know, key signature that Bitcoin uses. Um, but the but the real, you know, nuts and bolts of this is like it gives us the ability to program on spaceime. Like you can literally code your own particles, your own quantum fields. You can do like, you know, like where this is going is not just making a wormhole. Like you could make like a a gravity like distortion field to make things like float. Um all of these are at least theoretically and mathematically possible because like you know to your point like is universe of simulation I prefer to call it a program it's not simulating anything it like actually is an active um program um and I think it uh it is like an interpreter it's like a ducttyped um like it's not >> well I'm not going to get into that but the I don't know I don't know yet uh because I haven't I wanted to make a quantum programming relation you know maybe next time we talk or something I'll have one but um the bottom line here is that like you Like the universe itself, spacetime is a thing that takes code and like changes its state. So like you can create theoretically any type of particle, any type of force carrier, any type of you know geometry to spacetime by being able to describe it using um a corresponding programming language or like machine operating set. >> So >> So you're saying that spacetime is a giant computer pretty much? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's spacetime like itself is almost kind of like how would I put this like I don't think it like has all of the components of a computer like I don't really know where like memory would go or like you know dis space but like it does have memory and it does have like CPU so like the actual entangled quantum particles are kind of like a CPU you know what I mean um and the memory is essentially just like you know the amount of information that can be sort of like you know stuffed into those entangled particles um kind of like your random access memory. So yeah. >> Yeah. Some people think that like anything that's ever happened could still be saved in the memory of the universe, especially if you believe in this idea of the ether. I think it was Charles Chase of Locking Martin actually that sent told me that in an email said that he believes that the universe has a sort of memory to it. >> That's what Stephen Hawkings whole thing was. you know what I mean with like the black hole situation and like you know there's a lot of great examples here like you know what if the universe is just this kind of like foam of black holes where like all the information is sort of written like in the past on the surface of a black hole I mean that's also like right back to the holographic principle as well you could even imagine like our whole reality our whole universe could be like a hard drive where you can like replay it back like forward and back kind of like the Gorgon stair like oh I want to re rewind this or watch it live or fast forward it. You know, it opens the door that this is weird from the physics perspective because we're trapped in this three-dimensional body, but you could imagine that if you were the one playing the game, it wouldn't seem weird at all. You would understand the bigger picture of what's actually going on. And you kind of touched on another thing that I think is for me rising up the ranks of my explanations for meaning of life which is what if you know when we're talking about SETI looking for messages and you were also talking about this like using thermal computations to look for messages. >> Yes. >> What if it turns out we're do we do something like that and we find a message like we find some code we don't know what it means but we see there's clearly some pattern there. But what if it turns out that that's not a message from the Zeta Reticuli aliens? What if it turns out that that's a consciousness message of the universe itself? That like the universe is alive and there are thoughts and messages that are happening and maybe that's even just a replay of things that happened in the past. The reason why I bring up this abstract idea is that my opinion is kind of that our consciousness is not local. that our consciousness is external. And if that's the case, like you said, we could all be coming from this collective conscious >> and that's and if we go then start mapping these like thermal fluctuations, maybe we're actually seeing the brain of the universe kind of at work. What do you think? >> Oh, dude, 100 [ __ ] percent. I mean, like it's Rupert Sheldreg stuff. I mean, like, you know, more or less a lot of that stuff has actually been like experimentally proven from like the Stanford Research Institute and things. Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean in this like age of disclosure like we're starting to find empirical evidence for some of these like you know side phenomenon whatnot that everybody be like oh that's like not possible like like I don't know if you know like who's that guy that is really do with the spoon bender or whatever. I don't know if that shit's real or not. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean like I don't know. He did something recently was so funny where he was just like standing like this and he was trying to make a soccer goal go and I was like oh my god maybe it is. I'm not going to hate on the guy. But like there are some really interesting, you know, like experience especially from people who like remember past lives and stuff that um I mean look also the fact that it corresponds to just like ancient mysticism is something that is not lost. I mean like when people are sort of telling a story from a different perspective um and we start to find out that like there is empirical evidence to support that. You have to wonder like okay there's got to be some other way of people kind of like understanding you know a nature of truth and like yeah I don't know I mean the the bottom line here is like I do totally subscribe to the idea of like you know a um I guess like divorced consciousness from like you know yourself and it's honestly kind of like the only thing that we can like say to make sense of some of these you know just like coincidental phenomenon that people pick up and Um, God, what was I going to say? Um, yeah. I don't know. I subscribe to it. >> Yeah. I mean, the SCI power stuff is a little out there, but if you're a physicist and you're an open-minded scientist, you know, you start to look at if you're saying that spacetime is a is a thing. Spacetime is a has an energy to it. It has possibly a consciousness to it. Then it opens the door to all these sigh sigh powers type things like remote viewing. it becomes possible that you might be able to know something like that. And and who's to say that's crazy? I mean, consciousness is crazy, right? >> Yeah. I mean, look, and I I don't necessarily have one that I believe in. All I'm saying is like there is some research coming out there that's like uncanny enough to say, hey, I think there's some signal in the noise and we should start looking at it. And I think that anyone who takes science seriously needs to be like if there's some data that like supports a theory, you have to keep looking at it until it's exhausted. also want to mention too like talk about just to get back to kind of other topic about people getting kind of slandered in science like um uh god who's a mathematician who like won the Nobel Prize like a couple of them um he wrote the road to reality you know what I'm talking about let me Google this um >> I need a little bit more context than that >> yeah sorry um so I can't believe I'm forgetting >> Roger Penrose >> yeah Roger Penrose okay so this dude is objectively one of the smartest [ __ ] of all time right he has this idea about like you know um like microtubules in your brain and quantum entanglement and stuff you know just at first glance if I'm do AA's razor if I'm a betting man am I going to put $5 on this experiment no the guy has done so much that like if he has a cool idea like why not test it out instead everybody calls him like a quack and I'm just like bro like you're not Roger Panro if somebody wants to come up with a cool idea and experiment it like respect the man you know and like dude he's been right about so many other things. Like maybe he's right about this one, you know? >> Yeah. And that's I hate this whole idea of everybody just calls everybody quacks, you know? It's like probably the reason why we're like 30, 40, 50 years behind in science is because of that mentality. And you said it perfectly earlier is that it comes down to funding. You're not going to get funding. And this is speaks to the fusion thing as well. I just listened to Robert Brousard be like, hey, this is early 2000s. He's like saying that openly saying that we can't even get the hundred million dollars that we need from the DoD because the DoD straight straight up told us if we give you this money the Department of Energy is going to come in and shut it down because they have the contract. They have the charter for fusion. How is that even a thing? How is it a thing that the Navy or the DoD can't research fusion because the Department of Energy is like, "No, that's ours." But they still haven't done anything. >> It's like this is the stuff that pisses me off, man. Go ahead. Sorry. No, me too. Do you know that part of the like radio spectrum is like has been made illegal? Like there's certain like parts of Yeah. like um I think it's like low frequency um like radio spectrum like you just can't you know. Yeah. No, totally. And um you know the the guys is saying that it's like a military thing but like or sort of like high energy like direct current is like illegal. I think it's probably because that's where like spacetime and or like basically our like standard model starts to break down and they just don't want people to know about it. Um I mean it's just too uncanny. So like dude if anybody's out there and wants to find an interesting way to to get in trouble with the government like create a super high power direct current and just start to see like what weird effects happen. Um I think Tesla was doing this as well and um you know just there's a lot of people like the passion has just sort of been taken out. You know what I And it's kind of like we're living in the [ __ ] Truman show. Like, you know, remember when he was just like, "I want to go like discover Fiji or New Islands." And they're like, "Oh, everything's been discovered, Truman. Just stay home and like, you know, do your, you know, whatever insurance sales." Like, that's no world to live in. And I mean, that's like kind of like why I'm doing what I'm doing with my like blockchain and trying to like create this new like, you know, infrastructure for a society that like works for us is because it's like, you know, I've done the thought experiment like if somebody hands me like 10 billion dollars, like what the [ __ ] am I gonna do? Play golf? [ __ ] that. Like there's so many other questions that like can't be answered by like a religious figure or just like your government or just like you know scientific consensus that's not even consensus is the consensus of the funders and the academic journals that you know kind of like control it like you know at some point it's just like you know I want to go discover Fiji. And um you know just to to mention this too like you know right now like we've been talking constantly just about like there are certain forces at B that have demonstrabably tried to manipulate our reality. Well what's going on right now is that the advent of like the blockchain world is based on something called consensus technology or consensus networks which is what I call them. And essentially they're like a truth machine um specifically for computers but that translates into a truth machine for you know the internet itself which is where we get all of our information and understand like the state of the world and the state of reality. So you know there's been a lot of [ __ ] you know from both intelligence agencies and like cartels and stuff that like I'm not going to say anything beyond that because like I don't want to get like actually whacked. Um but like I can tell you like it's it has gone down. that has happened. Um, I've seen it and the the reality of the situation here is that like this technology is so powerful that like it is trying to be they're trying to hold this back and hold back actual applications of real technology that can like make you know information processing systems and like for instance like the ability to host all of the the actual websites and all the applications that you want on like personal devices that takes away the cloud computing monopoly where like Google and Amazon and Microsoft control literally like all the applications that like you know people can actually like get access to. Um they hook people into these like certain contracts where they try to like screw companies over based upon what they can sort of glean from their balance sheet. And um you know they sort of like get you into uh you know charging you on like a per monthly basis. And you know I worked at a company um the first one I worked at ended up like having to do a down round and selling it because they got locked into a totally predatory agreement with AWS. and the thing just like went down despite the fact that the you know there was real you know actual meat to what was going on. That's one aspect. I'm also doing a lot of world um work in like you know like Africa right now because there's a lot of like really great programmers and like smart people who have great applications and ideas and because of currency debasement they literally can't host their applications anywhere um like in these cloud computing providers because like it cost an arm and a leg that will just destroy their business and it's like but if you could make it like make something that could allow people to host programs just on cell phones and laptops um you've opened up an entirely new world where just smart people in general who have great ideas can get those ideas into people's hands, but unfortunately it can't be controlled by the gatekeepers right now. I mean, like, and that's that's the truth. >> Damn. You might be more dangerous than me, actually, trying to get the information out there in a way where even uh I tell you, man, you go you allow third world people to have a voice. That's what they don't like. That's what they don't like. >> Um, you'll never figure that out. I'm not either. Um, you bring up a good point though is that they ban they may, this is just theory, right? But they may have banned certain bandwidths because they didn't want people to find the science. Like what I realize is that they have to block so many avenues of people that would just naturally find this science is real. Another one I talk about all the time is the EM drive. The impossible drive. What's crazy, this is absolutely true. You guys can fact check this. Sunonny White of NASA in 2014 tested the EM drive and found anomalous thrust. Literally NASA, you can find the NASA paper on the NASA's website says anomalous thrust found in whatever, right? And everybody just says it's debunked. I'm like, NASA didn't say it was debunked. And then they go, oh, but some people made their opinion that it was because of some heat thing. That's just some opinion. That's not a scientific discovery that somebody made or claim. So there are, I think, multiple different ways that will show where classic physics breaks down and they have to be careful not to let anyone else get close to it. Another example, I could probably go on for days, by the way, is the Large Hadron Collider. We've got this massive particle accelerator. It should be discovering major understandings of physics. And instead, it almost felt like they knew it wasn't going to do anything. So they were like, "Hey, we got to have this Higs Bzon discovery, this Higsfield discovery, make it seem like this really huge thing, like it justifies all this money that we spent on this collider." But in reality, it doesn't actually answer anything. It can't even explain the rest mass of particles. >> I w I will say so like, yeah, the thing that's it is the Higbosin is actually important because it tells us something about how gauge fields work. Um, and like you know I I do think that this the the LHC like is really important and like I did work with some like you know tangential particle physics and stuff and I will also just say though that like there's human error to a lot of these things and there's probably a lot of data there that can that can prove new particles and things that have existed. It's just the analysis of the data has been wrong. my thesis when for like my physics degree um basically somebody found some anomalous data um at the Jefferson lab around um the spin asymmetry of um like protons and basically um I I figured out that somebody just sort of like marked the data wrong and I like flipped I just like changed a negative sign or whatever to like one column in this giant matrix and everything was just back to 100%. And so like [ __ ] like that happens and it's the truth. Um but I think the real talk here is we just need more funding for these projects and um in general. But like granted like I've known a lot of these people personally. I think they're great people. A lot of them have like turned down like opportunities to like make tons of money and whatnot just because they believe in something and um so like I'm very sympathetic to that. But like also a lot of research is like [ __ ] You know what I mean? I mean look at some of the stuff that like Doge came out with. I mean, also like regardless of your politics, like it's pretty it's pretty unfucking believable. So, a lot of that stuff could be going into building, you know, warp drives and [ __ ] but instead it's it's going to where it's going. >> Yep. Hot fusion and academia in general are basically like the Minnesota Somalia daycares of uh of science community at this point. And it's like, you know, what have we what have we gotten out of tokamax and hot fusion in the last 30 years? Uh, basically it's just a money printing machine is what they are. they don't actually solve anything. So, let me go back because I I think I want to maybe round out the conversation back to where do you think AI is headed? You know, I talked to a lot of smart people and I think the consensus now is that most people think that AI could never be conscious and that AI is some machine intelligence thing that's not the same as us. What do you think? >> So, like this kind of gets into my own argument that I made in this book or this like textbook that I'm writing right now. Um, so first off, chat GPTs in general are an application of something called natural language processing where essentially they're just kind of like a search engine on steroids. Um, it can reason about stuff. It can find information for you. It can, you know, do lots of those those things. But like in terms of like creating like an an IO, you know, like with the the actual world, like an open system, um there's still they're missing the actual like data processing infrastructure to connect to the real world. Um that you know, one should assume at least if you're taking like a model kind of like what's in like um you know, I'm a strange loop or um a couple of these other like models of consciousness out there. Um, personally, I do think we're going to create um I and like look, I I like my own farts just as much as anybody else. I think my [ __ ] is awesome, but and I think you should too. If you're like creating stuff, you should think your [ __ ] is this [ __ ] Um, I think that this thing I created with reality like one is an objective reality that's like provable at least according to some of these consciousness models. But like I think that a um something called a like how would I how would I put this? There's something called a like funer calculus um or a functoral calculus which is basically a calculus on computation itself where we can almost like treat um the programs that are running like an engine in a car. You can do like actual thermodynamic calculations on these processes. I think that right there is actually the backbone for what consciousness is. Um and for instance like uh so you know that thing I was doing at SETI um I basically like made a similar like application in order to solve a consensus problem kind of like Nakamoto consensus or how Bitcoin works um in order to like get around some of the limitations around scalability where um I basically just looked at the actual thermodynamics of information throw flow through a system um albeit using this like mathematical framework that I invented called blockchain coology um which is like a cohomology theory It's like a way of doing homological physics um on computation itself and sort of like you know treating these like computer programs um in such a way that you can model them like an engine in a car. Um but was really cool about it is that like when you think about like a problem of consensus like what is like the truth in terms of you know information flow through a system um you can start to treat you know these problems the same way that we treat um you know connecting a cell phone to a satellite um and you can use certain techniques like error correction codes um and just like information theory in general to you know make like a you know simple like OG machine learning problem to solve consensus and um you know I at least if you look at the experimental like results in my paper which like to be totally honest I don't know how the [ __ ] I pulled that off but um it you know it's up to like 85% around 80% of the entire network being adversarial the consensus algorithm is able to like choose the correct set of nodes that are legitimate and like boot the other ones off and um continue on the right path so um yeah it's really cool and um you know I guess just the bottom line here that I'm trying to get at is that like consciousness itself like it's not necessarily like a program. It's like the thing that hosts the program. You know what I mean? Like your consciousness isn't your brain. It's like all of the actual like components in your body that like process information into a shared coherence that is sort of likeworked through your brain. Um, if you if you follow me, it's not like there's like one central thing that is the consciousness program. Consciousness is like a like symbiosis or like a coherence of lots of different information processors that's able to like make decisions um about like an open system like in thermodynamics. And um it's also worth mentioning too that like you know the second law of thermodynamics breaks down when you start to look at things in terms of an open system, right? But like think about like what we are, right? like you eat food and your body basically like tries to um you know minimize like entropy on like the macro state, you know what I mean? By maximizing it on like the the the micro state, you know, like how do you basically try to take energy out of certain things in order to make sure like your skin and your hair and your body doesn't fall apart, right? Um I mean this is all like open system thermodynamics. So we we literally live through this every day just by being alive. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I guess what scares me about the AI thing is like who decides what's true and how does the AI decide what's true? Ultimately, the person that programs the code is going to be the one that determines it. And you start to wonder like if you were to take a random selection of a hundred people, you're not you're almost never going to find they're going to have all the same opinion about something. >> So, how do you, like you said, do the error correction to determine what's the truth? How do you determine what the truth is? That's something that concerns me because I don't want to have a psychopathic AI that's murdering us all because it's decided that reality is a different version of the truth than than other people believe. And I don't know what the answer is there. And almost makes it sound like you're saying that that consciousness could develop, but it's going to be a lot more complicated than what we're currently doing right now because this idea of what we have as machine intelligence is just one factor. The same way where our brain is just one factor of our collective consciousness. Is that your kind of your point? >> I'd say in short, read my book or at least this textbook on my programming layers. Try to code some [ __ ] with it. Um it's called Babel. It's really cool. And um but I mean in short is that I think it's honestly more simple than what some of these GPTs are. I think it's basically a way of creating like halt-free computation um computer pro like a programming language or like a model of computation that can introspect on itself and figure out hey like am I in a situation here that's like in congruent with an objective reality. Um that is all that consciousness really is. It's basically sort of like self-awareness you know like the emanation of of an eye. Um and uh I think that well I think that at the very least this programming language that I made is like the first step towards creating some kind of a context where maybe unifying a GPT that's hosted or like written with this language could create something that's almost kind of like um anthropomorphic enough to I don't know maybe pass the touring test or just sort of like you know us have the respect of it that we do for like other people which maybe wasn't a good thing. Maybe we should have bit more respect so they don't kill us all. >> Well, the moment that we stop training off of Reddit, it'll probably just become instantly sentient. But, um, Wyatt, this has been an awesome conversation, my man. Thank you for coming on my show and talking to me about all these interesting topics. Go ahead and shout out your work content, where people can find you. >> Yeah, totally. So, the best place to find me um and my company right now is on Twitter. Um, so I'm Wyatt_noise. Um, come check it out. I'm going to be sharing a lot of the, you know, stuff like our tech. Um, I I am constantly. So, um, if you guys are interested in just like crypto or like, you know, big data or just like finding, um, you know, new ways to to to code things, um, just come get involved. I have an application that allows you to mine tokens just on like your cell phone or your laptop. It's an app that like you print money. It's an app that pays you to run it. So, go get paid. Go print some [ __ ] money, man. It's not just the Federal Reserve anymore, baby. Um and uh yeah, just in general like come get involved in it in any way. Um we're going to be launching this year. Um you know, coders, like investors, um community people, anybody who just wants to, you know, start to see this like next leg of like what the blockchain technology world really is. and um just contribute to this truth machine, you know, like just to to one last plug, it's like, you know, we're in an age where like we really need to to band together and make a decision about what do we want objective reality to be. And if we don't have that defined, if we haven't made that choice on an individual level, then on like a global level, you know, these actors cani continuously manipulate your reality, manipulate your your markets and your economies. Um and it's time for us to just sort of like wake up and and this is it. this is the the tech that's going to allow us to do that. So, everybody on this everybody on this channel knows what I'm talking about. So, like you have no excuse. So, if the world ends and it all sucks, like you know, you had this was it. So, come on by. >> There we go. Well, there you have it. Thank you so much, Wyatt, for joining me today. Uh, thank you everybody else for watching. I hope you guys enjoy. Like, share, subscribe, and leave your comments down below. Have a good day, guys. >> Thanks, guys.