Cold Fusion Debate - Bob Greenyer & Michael Perrone

Video Transcript

# Cold Fusion Debate - Bob Greenyer & Michael Perrone Malayan 370 contact 120m 3 breaking news tonight A Malaysia Airlines flight with 239 people on board including four Americans has gone missing [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita Vishnu is trying to persuade the prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says now I am become death the destroyer of [Music] worlds welcome everybody Welcome to the live stream and yes of course yatsi chat yatsi guys thank you for being here uh there are a lot of things going on and so before we start our special edition of hard TRS uh cold fusion Edition debate between Michael Peron and Bob Greener we are still waiting on one of our guests at the moment I decided I would jump in because there's some stuff to react to so let's give the people what they want so the big news just last night was that a picture started circulating all over on Twitter and in this image was Joe Rogan sitting at a table with Hal POF wow that's big because if you've been following my work closely I've been saying for over a year that Hal POF is the key to all this Zero Point Energy he's the Godfather of Zero Point Energy and I even shared a private direct message my last private direct message to Joe Rogan after the whole Joe Rogan cancelling out on me coming on Saga that said thanks you know I appreciate you but talk to Hal POF Hal POF is the guy you should talk to now in that period of time what we've learned is there's no chance in Hal how pof's gonna talk or and probably not go on Joe Rogan either because he just has too many ndas he's worked for the PE the private military contractors he's worked directly for the government he probably knows all the secrets and he's probably got one of those ndas that's like we can kill your whole family if you say anything anything and he's just on the record saying that he's going to go to his grave with the secrets and never say anything he said it on the record like a few weeks ago I'm not gonna play the recording right now but we I've got it you guys know I have the receipts so here is an image oh that I'm referring to right now by Chrissy Newton Christy Christy Newton whatever and there it is and there's jock Valle jock Valle right next to Joe Rogan actually so it turns out as you could expect Let's Go full screen here jacqu valet was on Joe Rogan today actually today now there's a clip they actually speak about this dinner at the very beginning of today's uh podcast episode and Joe Rogan basically just says how PUD off blew my mind how P off blew my mind people in the CH people on Twitter were asking me is Joe Rogan trolling me is he actually just trolling me at this point I I really do not know it actually makes me wonder one of the topics so I guess my my my thing to Joe Rogan is this whether or not anyone wants to believe me or not wants to believe the videos are real or not I I don't really just don't care I know it's real and the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing now the reason why I'm reviewing stuff like cold fusion is because that's where the science and those videos led me as a person that's where they led me after I realized those videos were real and they led me to now my good friend Bob Greener and my other friend Michael Peron who is with APEC and and basically all these guys do is try to understand how anti-gravity could work and what we would have to do to engineer it and so that's my goal the people that I talk to are the people that I think are trying to find the answers as opposed to people out there just selling books in the same documentary over and over and over again repeating the same stuff and keep saying that they can't say where the bodies are really buried because that would break all national security so instead of that let's just have a productive conversation so today's special live stream episode is about cold fusion now if you're not familiar at all with cold fusion cold Fusion became popular in 1989 go predates 1989 but that's when it became popular in the public and it be became popular because two guys named Stanley ponds and Martin fleschman uh that were at University of Utah question mark anyway they were in Utah and instead of putting their paper out for peer review they immediately made their results public public this is a big taboo so what happened it led to a firestorm especially when your results are saying that you are producing excess energy now one more thing that I want to frame here for people and then we're going to open it up and introduce our guests is what is excess energy excess energy is that if you're putting in a certain amount of energy you should not be getting out of your system more energy than is going into it and pwns and flashmen were claiming that they were getting excess energy in the form of heat in the form of in some cases are claims of boiling water that shouldn't be boiling the other huge claim they made is that there was transmutation occurring in their experiment transmutation like we're on straight up uh Full Metal Alchemist the anime at this point okay and so the controversy comes now well what about the laws of physics can those claims be true they were initially replicated up to 60 times of different Labs across the country 60 times various aspects of the claims and then the department of energy put together a tribunal with MIT and several other established uh universities and reviewed the claims of just the positive results that were occurring and systematically debunked the most prominent ones and so cold fusion lived a short life and then was debunked as fake but but it lives on low energy nuclear reactions is one of the forms of quote unquote cold fusion and we've brought in one of the experts today Bob Greener experimental Engineer Expert on low energy nuclear reactions and uh Michael Peron who is with ape at a physicist and experimental engineer himself as well welcome guys both of you the show today how are you doing great here yeah um thanks for having me on thanks uh thanks for being willing to talk Bob also yeah well thank you guys for being here right away and so I just want to start with instead of just digging straight into the hard science it's going to upset and confuse people I want to ask you guys a more simple question and I'm gonna start with Michael on this one why is fusion important for Humanity Well Fusion is uh among the U non-exotic sort of Technologies like the stuff that you could do with existing physics fusion um is the most viable long-term power source for Humanity there there's the the most of the mass in the universe or most of the matter that's visible in the universe is hydrogen and so uh you can you can fuse that into heavier elements use those heavier elements for things and then you also get a huge amount of energy when you do that and so for the near term um that can buy us a 20,000 years on Earth uh before we start worrying about depleting oceans and stuff like that assuming exponential growth continues which we don't necessar need to assume that and then the solar systems got even way more hydrogen than the oceans do so um it's it's a fairly acceptable route uh yeah it is the of the of the non-renewable resources it's the best one and then let me ask a quick follow-up question on that how is it possible that we can put in less energy into a fusion reaction and get out more ener which is seemingly the point of how we would produce energy with this reaction well really you have the same thing for any process for example when you're drilling oil you use up some amount of energy to get use usually as oil you use up some amount of oil to get more oil um and so um if you have a nuclear process that you have to stimulate in order to cause it uh you have to apply some input energy in order to get the fusion to occur and then the fusion reaction um has some amount of energy that's based on its physics that's uh not necessarily as dependent on the input energy it depends what atoms are there um and then um you can extract that and that has that contains more energy in it than the energy that you put in so we're harvesting the I don't know chemical bonds of the atoms or some form nuclear bonds nuclear Bonds in this case there's a okay electron shells have chemical states that have energy associated with those and that's why you burn gasoline and it it produces energy for you to use but uh the nucleus has uh energy states just like the electron cloud has energy states associated with it and so um if you have some uh nucleus that could uh fuse and then be in a low lower overall energy configuration uh then just like with uh burning of a normal fuel you'll get energy out okay Bob why is fusion important all other energy forms basically come from the Sun so you have uh solar energy you have wind caused by basically the sun in some form or other uh you have wave uh you could argue that fossil fuels are just a store of solar energy you believe that all come from non Prebiotic source and so nuclear energy whatever nuclear energy you're looking at is the only real nons solar derived energy and that we generally uh have an understanding of and if you're going to be able to go across the cosmos as you opened you can't do that with solar energy because the sun gets further and further away from us you really have to have another source of energy that is not relyant on the Sun or chemical energy now all energy is actually a reduction in the Distortion of the physical vacuum so it doesn't matter whether you're looking at a chemical bond or a nuclear Bond um nuclear binding energy you're basically um distorting less of the physical vacuum and you get energy back from that and what Michael was talking about is energy returned over energy invested this is whatever you put in you get uh more out than you put in and therefore you have a net benefit so you know a a uh you could argue that a a petrol engine or a you might call a gas engine on your side of the pond it runs you know infinitely until it stops It's like got unlimited energy until it stops you know it's when you cut off your uh sample point you you determine whether it's actually doing anything magical well I don't think we're going to run out of hydrogen anytime soon but that is a very good point yes I mean of all the mass in the universe um hydrogen is the most common bionic matter that is like the mendelev table um but actually all the the plasma and all of the mass we observe in the universe is planets and Suns that's only .4% of the mass when you add in the nonvisible and the dark the black holes you you get to a hole including what I've just said a whole 4% so there's a hell of a lot more energy out there uh that could potentially be used uh that doesn't even necessarily involve what we consider as Fusion now my point uh of the second follow up that question from Michael was pretty much I I got the answer that I wanted which is that with x amount of input we can get X Plus y amount of output or Y we don't know how much of output that's going to be but it's not the same amount as the input and why is that isn't that a very unusual thing isn't that explain to me Bob why that's not free energy well it's definitely not free energy in the form of chemical energy because the energy is already locked in the fuel so if you've got a lump of wood that has so much oxidation potential that is to say when you ignite that fuel and it combines with oxygen which is also part of the fuel in the air and produces say carbon dioxide and water um then you are uh producing um you're producing usable energy but you're not creating energy you're just using a store of energy yeah and that's the rub though isn't it for me as a layan as somebody who is you know not techical I think this is the big the gap between what physicist and Engineers think of as free energy which is uh and versus like what a Layman thinks of for me any system that's overunity is free energy but then it's really like you guys are saying just a matter of where you draw the boundary on the system at that point I mean the candle looks like overunity all the time it's burning you you you you put a minimum effort to start the burning process and then wow it's producing heat and light well here's the difference though is that they're not claiming the efficiency levels that places like um the 8 lab are with cold fusion or at least a version of cold fusion who are claiming three to five times excess over un which is a huge amount on what we would think of in terms of efficiency so maybe the question really is just efficiency so what I want to help out for my viewers though real quick is when I'm speaking about free energy I'm not talking about pulling something out of nothing although in a sense I kind of am because classical view of physics doesn't really or discounts the zero Point Energy all around us and I'm saying you can pull energy out of that um but no instead what I'm saying is that we're yeah we're borrowing energy but we're making systems that are so efficient that they're Perpetual basically perpetual motion for for the most part so for you guys the next question then uh not free energy related is just Fusion related in general what do you believe is the most let's say likely version of a breakthrough for for a fusion that we're going to have because we have multiple variations on what people are trying to produce Fusion out there so I want to know what do you think is the most likely to be successful to produce significant overunity uh process and why so let's start with Michael again I guess sure um so I I we're going to be getting to Exotic vacuum objects and stuff I'm sure um I'm still not convinced 100% of that but uh in terms of the conventional technology the exciting thing these days is nonsteady State processes so um I think there was a company helon energy and then there's been lawrenville plasma physics for many years I actually gave them some tips on what fuels to use and things um and about what they should use after they have their burum Electro but that that's beside the point uh basically one is a z pinch technology where you have an electric spark which uh given that's that could be forming exotic vacuum objects as well so that's that's possible um if if they do it properly um that might happen uh and then uh helon energy they uh they basically it's like an internal combustion engine for Fusion so they fire together two toroids um and there's a non non-steady State process where the peak pressure and temperature are sufficient to cause Fusion so so this is like a a single stroke or dual stroke engine sort of like you can imagine that these plasma structures are the um the Pistons in the engines and then you just compress the stuff enough that it fuses and the the nice thing about non-equilibrium fusion and I saw um I saw a cool a couple cool things in in the works from uh lock heat actually uh where they um basically there's a I don't know I don't know I shouldn't go into it too much I think but there basic there's improvements to simple magnetic bottle technology with just pulsed like now they can get up to 100 Tesla pulsed uh steady state like well sorry not steady state mag but a pulsed magnetic field and so that's that's plenty for a simple magnetic bottle and you don't then if it's a pulse thing you don't necessarily have to worry about uh the typical stability issues that you encounter with um with a tokomak for example or accelerator so um in some sense it it drastically simplifies things and then just the you're getting the energy out Simply from the expansion of the gas just like a normal combustion engine so um and then there's obviously it's electrically charged plasma so you can also get like uh langar waves and like longitudinal waves in plasmas um and you can Harvest energy from those as well anyway that's a little longwinded but there you go no that that's good I appreciate so that that one's your favorite if you had one or you just bringing that up as an example I mean that was pretty cool I had seen that before I I think and the guys at qua energy also mentioned this they're they kind of a bunch of them left from Commonwealth Fusion systems because basically they were trying to build tokumx and the limiting factor was these things called the plasma diverters and basically they were building these plasma diverters after out of uh out of pure tungsten and they were evaporating in the vacuum in the toac plasmas they were trying to keep it at a stud State and they was evaporating this plasma diverter component and so um they designed them to sweat lithium to cool it down to have a coating of liquid lithium on top of the tungsten it was still evaporating so it's it's it was just too much for those components to handle so um yeah it's uh it's not looking good for toomax I don't know if they can get around that that design flaw uh that they need that plasma diverter component and there's just no material with a high enough melting point for it I mean maybe they can go to haum carbonitride but then the carbon and the nitrogen evaporate off slowly too anyway long that's that's a big problem that I kind of want to discuss in in a minute but my my bigger question on that on for maybe for you on a followup is well you know looking at that is that cold fusion reactor at this point like they're using magneet fields to squeeze it together what's what is really the difference between the different versions of cold fusion because I'm the more I'm looking at these newer versions of fusion reactors I'm like I I don't get the difference between one that's trying to use a magnetic pinch versus temperature based or if that's the same thing so the there's something called an over potential for a chemical reaction or a nuclear reaction you need to apply like there's electrostatic repulsion between the nuclei and you have to overcome that to bring the nucle together the idea the idea with low energy nuclear reactions is if you can catalyze the fusion you can if you can bring something in there that Shields the charges from each other as they're approaching each other then they won't um you won't have to overcome that large coolone barrier and you can get Fusion to happen uh much more easily and so Bob will talk about some of this in a minute I'm sure um but uh there there are conventional way like using technology there's ways of doing cold fusion involving muons so muons are like heavier electrons basically and they're a little bit smaller too so if you take uh helium 3 for example oh sorry actually no uh dyum and trium well actually not even that just duum duum maybe even just normal hydrogen I have to check that but anyway um if you have um just hydrogen molecules and you replace the electrons with muons they'll be so close together due to the smaller orbital clouds formed by the muons that they can tunnel the nuclei can tunnel into each other and cause Fusion at even like down to like 400 Celsius but the big question is didn't you just say before that that somehow they're like oh we we found a way to make it more efficient but yeah that isn't that what cold fusion is doing is that they're saying we don't it's not as simple as just heating it up is that you can make it more efficient with like Z pinch with counter rotating magnetic fields like and isn't that what almost all these new versions of fusion reactors are doing is like all based on counter rotating magnetic fields for the most part well a lot of them have those features in them um if they're using them in that context I'm sure they can't necessarily talk about it uh um but why would they be able to talk about it huh oh I mean for like proprietary reasons or uh yeah either trade secret or uh itar uh or other regulations so let me go to Bob real quick because he's been waiting very patiently unlike Bob he's normally he's just jumping in there with thank you Bob appreciate it so Bob for you what do you think the most likely version of a breakthrough for nuclear fusion is and why um and I I guess I guess the best place to start is uh what is Fusion on the sun well that's in debate uh Fusion on the sun requires gravity uh it doesn't require the way that we claim to be trying to replicate it on Earth and that is by trying to squeeze it into a small space or have the Fusion fuel in a place and fire high energy lasers at it or um electrostatically confining it uh in a a fuser or like a Farnsworth fuser or smashing it together by raising the temperature none of these things are what is going on in the Sun so straight up Fusion as we attempt to do it on Earth is a Flatout lie and so it because we don't have the gravity and then we can get into what is the gravity but that's another story so what do we know works well we know a fusion bomb works we know that because it has been done and the largest bomb that was ever it detonated by the US was Castle Bravo and Castle Bravo was what's called a dry fuel bomb it didn't have any cryogenic tritium and dyum in there it had a lithium deuteride and it was natural or mostly natural it was slightly enriched with lithium 6 because they thought that that was the active isotope of lithium and dyum and the they had they would have a a plutonium trigger and that they would have uh natural uranium so it had natural uranium might well have been natural tritium uh some dyum no sorry uh natural might as well be natural lithium natural dyum uh no tritium the tritium was bread and it was actually nearly 49% aluminum the box of the bomb H and the number of atoms it was 49% so with uranium and the natural uranium not high enriched uranium this was just straight out the ground just uranium Isotopes 238 235 they made the biggest bomb ever now they put that down to the fact that lithium 7 played a role I don't agree that that was the whole story I think aluminium played a huge role and the reason I say that is because it's the most affected material uh in the huton effect it's the most affected uh material in our Ultra experiments it's a fuel that seems to fuse very regularly h i recommended this to uh the expert in ball lightning uh Dr George eagley and that is part of Eng 8's electricity producing overunity reactor and it is the key element used by Tesla in his shadow graph tubes as being replicated by the work of Griffin Brock now this brings me to what therefore is the most advantageous system I can imagine well uh if we look at Avy lob's attempts to recover magnetic particles uh from the Pacific we know that's in the Fallout zone of uh Castle Bravo and other Pacific tests he found iron rich spheres which were comprised and contained burum lanum and uranium these are all components used in Fusion bombs in those tests I believe that his iron rich sphere is because ion two 27 aluminums fused that is real fusion that seems to happen in a lot of lener experiments fuses to iron the most commonly found element in lener experiments not helium not um you know other things you might think would be fusing it seems to be iron and two iron 20 two aluminium 27s Fus to iron so you actually get the witness material of the Fusion Energy that may have been a big cause of the fusion energy in the um Castle Bravo so my preferred uh technology would include aluminium and lithium and hydrogen and one other element carbon uh did where's Ashton we've been abandoned who okay hey okay uh yeah I was listening to that whole time um so that was amazing uh the sun uh plasma so no I'm just kidding uh the sun was so the sun is acting like plasma Rea so basically when we're trying to make fusion reactor we're trying to make it act like the sun no that's a lie it's a Flatout lie that they've spent billions and billions keeping taxpayers on the hook for we are not ever replicating what the sun does because we do not have the gravity we try and overcome the gravity issue by having a uh increased temperature that is kinetic energy uh essentially or either confining it in some way but we just we it's just a flat lie and they know it's a lie yeah but so here's the thing and and so you're bringing up a good point if we don't really know how the Sun works then how can we be successful with Fusion but the other point is if we're just going to Discount gravity as an option right away then yeah we're kind of leave selling ourselves short it's kind of a big factor on what the sun's doing is the gravity part of it the question is can you make a highly localized Point gravity yeah I would argue and I do pretty much every day that you can do that that you would agree and I would even take it a step further because I don't know I didn't hear your response but tell me how close I am that what if cavitation is doing that what if it's some form of negative energy pressure What If gravity is just a pressure and all we then need is a negative pressure to counteract it then could we create like little puncher shrimp cavitation bubble but somehow cause that to cause you know collapse of matter or energy down and create Fusion is that feasible well I I I mean if I can have a crack at that if you look at John archal Wheeler that is the tutor of Fineman and and the person that was involved in the process of making that bomb the Castle Bravo bomb and the Manhattan Project he published a paper called gons in 1954 and he argued that all matter were standing waves of light and that they were bound together in the standing wave torai with a gravitational azoth and if that is what mattera is at its most fundamental level if that is what matter is at its most fundamental level then you have a means by creating not normal vacuum objects but exotic vacuum objects that are fractally self-similar to those substructures that He quotes which are the basis for everything from the microcosmos the subatomic all the way through to the black holes and galaxies and he invented the term black hole and Wormhole so he should know um wheeler did yeah I feel like I don't give him enough credit wait so wheeler helped build that bomb as well yes wow and he's also one of the claimed that there was enough energy in just this coffee cup four orbs coffee cup merchandise by the way guys he was one of the one of the two that come up with it yeah that's so it seems interesting to me that the guy that developed the biggest fusion bomb that has said that all matter is Just Energy trapped in a resonance he's not the only one to say that and I completely agree he this this is the guy also came up with the term black hole and for some reason we're just discounting that maybe there's like some excess energy possible somewhere well so I should mention here this is not non-standard physics yet like the nonlinear Sigma model is basically used used uh to describe uh Yang Mills Theory roughly speaking and uh that model uh describes many of the particles as uh solitonic objects so you have a nonlinear equation describing um the behavior of these objects and it it's uh that nonlinear equation allows the energy to stay localized and so um that's that's the standard model still that's not anything like like how should I put it the um if you look at uh vacuum noise in terms of A manowski Spacetime diagram mind mind pulling up a manowski diagram yeah yeah that'll be helpful uh as a teaching tool here so the question here is what do virtual particles look like when you describe them in Makowski SpaceTime us in a relativistic context what does a Quantum fluctuation look like and so you'll see uh basically U that's what you want right yeah yeah so so you've got some yeah so what does a virtual particle look like in this context so so quickly to explain uh you have space uh in the flat plane here you have two dimensions of space one dimension of time uh this is a reduced dimensional explanation just to kind of get the idea across but basically um if you set if you have a con by convention 45 degrees on the side there well it's good to keep the image up um if you have like 45 degrees on the side there um as your speed of light because the vertical axis is time so the speed of light is going to be uh lined through there at 45 degrees or whatever angle you choose really but the convention is 45 de anyway um this is a relativistic concept what happens when you take quantum mechanics and you try to describe it in terms of this relativistic concept well a virtual particle you'll have a virtual particle pair that appears at one instant in time and the particles drift apart and do whatever they do and then they come back together at some later time so you have this volume of space time which is carved out by you have the a cone uh going forward in time and a cone going backward in time so there's volume of space time that's carved out by this virtual process and so as you increase the energy density in a localized region then the um the there's this time energy uncertainty in quantum mechanics you can look it up but basically um the more energy is in a location the longer a virtual particle can exist okay and so these space-time volumes increase in size and they become more frequent as well So eventually these virtual particles will overlap these volumes will overlap and when that happens you get not a spontaneous symmetry breaking of the vacuum but an expected phase change of the vacuum uh which is uh which should be I I need to go through the calculations a little more and make sure but it should be equivalent to Yang Mills Theory so what what we're saying here roughly speaking is that um this this expected phase change adds a nonlinear term to the equations which allows the solitonic Behavior Uh but sorry that's a bit of in a it's a so my question is really this why do we need new physics at all I don't understand why we need new physics well we should we should be extending the existing physics and showing how it fits within a larger framework that describe that explains these new experiments of which there are many at this point I don't think we need anything new I I do think we need things that are not recognized yeah see that's my point too is that just real quick and I I'll let you jump on it as well is that I think that we really don't need new physics one of the things that I learned listening to AI lob and talking to ail lob who's you know Harvard physicist mainstream as it gets but also things outside the box is that the idea of adding Zero Point Energy this idea of this excess energy that's around this medium actually doesn't seem to change any of the existing laws of physics just adds like looks at it through a new lens honestly and even when I read Poff and all his papers about Zero Point Energy uh using The Ether like he's just using all standard physics all standard general relativity Einstein's equations manowski space time just like sal sal P was saying it's a new perspective on Old physics yeah and Dave rosi says that as well and so that's where I think when I look at this that's why I asked you the question about like is this cold fusion or are we just getting to the point now lines are just blurred where like even classical view of physics is kind of figuring out just through process of elimination and get you know and working through the fusion over 50 years that it's just inching closer and closer towards we need another way to do it other than the straight up temperature if that's pinching or uh whatever the other mechanisms are muon infus you know um catalyzed Fusion or what have you well I I I think we should start with a beginning and this is Ruby Carr's book on C Fusion it's very very thin it's done as a little comic book but the most interesting thing I think in here is what is generally referred to in the field of uh cold fusion as their the pwns and Flashman Singularity so this was about two years before uh pwns and Flashman were forced uh by Stephen e Jones to release their data early because you know there was patent issues and this that and the other uh and and bringham youngan University wanted to get a head start to put their flag in the ground um and this actually scared them and it was as I understand at about a CC it says one morning in 1985 so this is actually in three years before four years almost before 1989 so it's relatively early in their experiment uh they had as I understand it was about a 1 cc of Palladium loading for a number of weeks in the electrostatic setup such that uh the dyum was going into the padium which was established I think in 1870s as being the metal that that loaded the most hydrogen um and essentially someone turned down the electrostatic pressure which would it would in theory let some of the gas come out and according to various people's theories including Ken shoulders that would cause cracks which would cause charge clusters form that aside they don't know what happened what what what they did is imaged in this little picture here uh and it's easier for me to say it it boiled off all the water it went through the glass through the worktop uh and into the floor and by some accounts it's about a fist sized hole in the concrete was removed out of the concrete in the floor and they realized whatever this was it was not Fusion it was way way Beyond fusion and there was extremely fine particles of dust completely suspended in the air such that they weren't able to settle out well let me ask you a followup on this this is actually great we're having good discussion here is um would you think pwns and flashman's experiment was legit and do you what do you think they really discovered like did they was their experiment the big discoveries they found did this exact experiment was something or did they find some other property of nature that people did well I mean they were investigating things that had been done in secret in Russia in the 1950s and I think uh there were went and irion in 1920s or or stuff that that did some s similar experiments but if you go and look at in in um Fusion technology uh sorry um uh Infinite Energy in 1996 there's an interview between Martin fman and uh Christopher P Tinsley and they are talking about what they were actually investigating at the time they were investigating the behavior of electron in electrons in metal that's one thing they were invent investigating this heat production process they were investigating um it would appear because there's something cut out of the conversation gravity and one other thing um and they he was confused by uh vacuum um tubes he was confused and I think that might have come from maybe the work of um uh Henry morray so what do you think you think they legit though or do and they were totally jit these the they spent their own money to do this research a lot of it they worked for five years spending their own money you don't do that unless one you've got a good reason to think it's going to do something interesting and and two coming out with that you didn't think you could stand behind it and they did stand behind it and contrary to popular belief they were forced out of uh America and they went and continued with their work in France under the um sponsorship of of Toyota for five years that's very interesting because J now didn't had a bunch of cold fusion stuff on his P page and he was basically checking all of these uh exotic Technologies for the French government if I understand correctly um at back in the day um so uh from my perspective I know uh Jeremy ree uh he uh went for many years to the cold fusion conference at MIT and basically for many years they struggled to get it to be reproducible and like towards the end I think it 2014 or I don't know one of the more recent ones they basically got it down to you need about 95% du tyum loading in the Palladium if you have too much or too little that wasn't recent that's three decades ago oh yeah but uh but basically uh since PS inflation um it has uh been made into a repeatable experiment is what I'm trying to say you can do these kind of lowy nuclear reaction processes whatever they are repeatedly as a three-year-old in 7 minutes there are many ways to do this transmutation process one who had success early on was Dr Matt zoto sadly he's left us this is his book from 1990 and he shows the key kind of structures in here uh like uh cold what he calls cold fusion stars and these were published in Fusion technology so this these things well let me jump real quick and we can we can say that more because I want to uh kind of address that point there is this kind of Disconnect where one side says well it's not reproducible and the other side says well it's been reproduced all the time we're still reproducing it now and I guess in my mind I'm reconciling that going well is it the issue where because I mean we are doing all these different forms of fusion research and some of them are claiming to be somewhat successful not really having any commercial products though so I guess the question is you know is it reproducible or not when we're talking about reproducible are we just talking about Pond inflation's version I would suggest you look at who's spending what the entire uh research Fraternity in uh Japan who bearing in mind they don't have any real Energy natural resources are full on behind this and you just have to look at what's happening this year I've just been informed this afternoon that the US will spend 300 million plus another 60 million on this space this year that's very exciting yes it is and that came out of the the European work which partly came out of our open projects work because we replicated that and and bounce it back to Michael too then so then Michael I mean if it's not reproducible where no one's reproducing then why are we spending so much money on it and you know is it possible that it really was actually reproducible why I I did say I did say it was reproducible oh oh okay sorry they had trouble ear in the early days but they they more or less figured it out during the course of the MIT conferences is what I mentioned so is it still the same experiment though because all the or like which one is the one that's like there are a lot of experiments and they show what are they go ahead titanium DDE works there's a there's a fully as I understand a fully conventional technology using herum deuteride that uh and Brum strolling radiation uh in uh in uh at Nasa they they did that particular experiment I don't believe those results sorry Larry forsley oh who's that what I I don't believe their results sorry Larry forsley you don't believe Larry Farley's results no no because I I they don't detect neutrons in the same way uh that I believe you need to because the the same process they're doing so so they're taking accelerator and they're firing into a conversion Target producing gamma rays and they're looking at I think it's offenheim or Phillips uh reactions or something going on but what they're doing to produce those gamma rays is exactly and precisely the same thing that is published by Moscow Nuclear Physics Institute under B bogdanovich atal where they produce these structures which are magnetic monopoles and the Magnetic monopoles are what appear to do the work and the Magnetic monopoles are clusters of charge um I I think you're a little quick to jump to it must be because they do not use sorry they do not use gold activation or indium activation in their work all of their devices are electronic uh and even if they are Neutron tubes Neutron tubes have been shown to uh produce uh fake neutrons uh and you have to bias them in a different way so um the challenge is I don't think that work is going to ever come out in a useful way because it's designed even if it does work in the way that they're saying it's it's going it's designed for producing energy on on a spaceship not for the general the signal to noise ratio and their measurement was reasonable I I think like they did what they did and like they're very good at writing papers no if you if you look at what they've done like the herum the density the density of herum deuteride that's about as dense as you can get hydrogen I'm not saying that do OCC I'm just saying it doesn't occur the way they're saying it it's senser than metallic hydrogen like you're you're getting those hydrogen Nui really close together the closer together they get uh the lower the over potential is when you try to overcome the coolone barrier so I know that one of 70 theories yes I know that one of 70 theories question question is okay so we're trying to overcome the kolon barrier the repulsion uh electric repulsion or electrostatic repulsion I suppose and Ash Ashton Ashton that's what we're told we need to be overcoming okay okay okay just that you're right fine you can address the whatever underlying assumptions it's your turn um so yes we're told that we are trying to overcome this kolom barrier and this is going to be important too when we talk about evos but and that okay so what they're trying to do in these various forms of pwns and Flashman or variants of cold fusion is find ways to reduce that coolon barrier so I think what Michael just said is this very heavy hydrogen is a good way to potentially candidate to begin to accomplish so I I can give you one example of that that is the um H minus particle in Franchesco pantelli system so Franchesco pantelli in August uh 1989 after ponon Flashman he was doing a Biology experiment cut a long story short he has a theory where you get H minus which is an H with two electrons uh forming and it acts like a muon and it goes in it does one or two things spits the proton back out or it basically for the for nickel 62 and 64 if if you if you calculate the radius that it would be orbiting at it's already inside the nucleus and so that's why the nuclear reaction occurs and you get copper forming that's the a heavy quasy particle doing the job um there there are many other particles discussed in in these areas um but they they're kind of like uh flights of mind and they don't really have any meat and potatoes as it were on on the actual experimental observation in the case of uh um Francesco piantelli he actually observed in a cloud chamber protons and you can tell the proton under a magnetic field in the cloud chamber because the way it spins it curls rather um uh and and how far it goes and what it interacts with um he I think it's a something like 5.7 me he calculated his protons and he actually had an event in his lab where he produced fantastic numbers of neutrons which were determined by gold activation for gold foil activation not by Electronics which gets fooled by the Quasi neutrons um and he calculated that that was an interaction between these protons that his process was producing and the uh um vadium uh 50 in the steel that he was using in his reactor now what we do know is from all the way back to langier langier in the 1910s when he was producing tungsten filament light bulbs for some reason he saw a production of 7,000 times the volume in some gas of the volume of his tungsten filament he couldn't work out where it was coming from now you fast forward to Mizuno a famous Japanese researcher he's still with us thankfully uh and he did research he found the production of hydrogen other people have found the production of hydrogen and so if you're producing hydrogen um that might explain some of these observations from other elements if I can just uh make an observation here uh mizuno's experiment involved uh Thermo Thermo electrolysis if well that's a fair point he did um I assume we're talking about the electrolysis experiment right he did one with tungsten It produced a coop of 800 yeah I I've replicated that experiment with the Geer counter in fact and I've seen this at least a slight increase in neutrons it wasn't in like what you would expect from standard Fusion but then again with these exotic vacuum object fusions um maybe you don't get what the typical behavior is well we know that uh and there's many explanations potentially for that um but yeah it's uh we can't hear you ason so you recreated the experiment of Gyer counter and you saw what some excess radiation yeah maybe maybe twice three times or three times background uh it varied a lot um I I did not have the optimal setup for the Muno experiment but the thing with the hold on you said Gea counter and neutrons I don't know whether those two things go together it's a rough estimate it's a rough estim Giga counter isn't measuring neutrons it's just measuring whatever no it's not measuring whatever a neutron to to measures neutrons aium three or a boron 10 okay so it's probably well no that particular type um that I had was an old uh Relic from the World War II era so but what was it it had uranium it had uranium well it could be alpha particles then right so if it's a gara counter it can measure Alpha bet gamma and it can measure that depending on what you put in front of it right in any case I I measured some stuff that was slightly over background which could have been other processes after could have been your background okay well let's get to the point do you my point being is I I saw some interesting results with the mauno like experiment but the excess hydrogen you're electrolyzing water and not only are you electrolyzing water but it's less well known that you can water can undergo thermolysis at high temperatures so you can if you get the temperature high I think he knew that and I think he actually discusses it in his papers yeah he does I'm just say I'm just explaining this for the audience yeah but um as you increase the temperature of your electrodes electrolysis becomes more efficient so um up to the point where uh you you can get what it what what looks like over 100% electrical efficiency but you're actually using endothermically some of the heat from the electrode and how does the heat in the electrode get there how does the heat in the electrode get there uh well interesting yeah good point it either comes from the electricity or it comes from the overunity produced in the in the fusion or fishing processes the reality is since the beginning it doesn't matter whether you look at this guy this guy K shoulders whoever whoever you're looking at you get both fusion and fishion and other things going on it's not just about Fusion it shouldn't have been called cold fusion for a long time and that's why it's been called Low nuclear reactions and in fact it's they called it cold transmutation of nuclei and B lightning in Russia because it is all of the above including synthesis and desynthesis of matter and when you're talking about synthesis of matter you're capturing some energy from somewhere be that light phonons vibration or actual some other form of dark matter and or dark energy and you are cohering that into new matter when you are synthesizing matter and that appears to be some of the things that is going on it's far more interesting and so I I made sorry one time just want before before we get too far ahead I just want to mention like one of the main difficulties with the existing scientific community in terms of getting them to look at this or understand what's really going on here is you have condensed matter physics which generally focuses kind of on the chemistry um and the the bulk material Behavior Uh and they I mean occasionally they'll care about boundary conditions cracks in materials micr structures um but it's not a focus really of that field unless you're doing catalysis the standard absolutely every single way to promote this process but then but then like most people are trained in either condensed matter or Nuclear Physics you need people who can speak the language of both condensed matter physics and nuclear physics to bridge that Gap and that's a that's a challenge both those are two of the most complicated fields we have right now yeah so let me just break this down because it seems like we kind of got to the the point now where we finally got down to an experiment that shows some anomalous results and we kind of both agree that it does and got to the point where we can't fully explain with classical view how that could be assuming that the results are accurate so then the question is it doesn't stand in isolation though no no that's fine that's fine let's specifically we're assuming that it's real for now so hang with me no but I mean it wasn't just mauno I I'm sorry David Hudson observed the same thing uh we observed the same thing and before that we had um BR um orian energy which was formerly called the sapphire project observe the same thing it's where is the coefficient of performance coming from that's my question fishing of tungsten do you believe that free energy is possible uh I I the release of energy from a triggering catalytic process Which is far and above uh the input your energy put in and Far Far Beyond chemical is possible yeah that's free to me that's free energy because again what did we say before Michael was saying well we have some some fixed input amount and we're going to trigger a nuclear a fision or Fusion or both reaction and that's going to release more energy than that fixed input amount well there's some chemist there's some chemistry term called Gibbs free energy related to this but it's not quite free energy in the sense that like you have an arbitrarily large amount of energy that's as big as you want it to be uh there are also there's also something called non-equilibrium steady state processes or non-e equilibrium um uh statistical mechanics and there's a whole other there's a whole other field of study of basically recycling thermal energy from the vacuum and you saw this with the orbs uh they cool down instead of heating up if you have something that's expending megawatts of power or something it's gonna it's going to have a heat signature but um anyway that's that's that's a whole other topic with a whole other conversation kind of gets to this topic because that's what I think we're steering toward something called evos exotic vacuum objects which is like what Bob is is saying here in that experiment if it's possible that we could have some low energy cause reaction that causes both fishion and fusion I mean that seems like we just found the tools to engineer free energy just straight out of the vacuum and when again when I'm calling it free energy I'm just being co because really what it is is just coefficient of performance greater than one we found some tool that can interact and produce energy at a very efficient R well it's a little bit it's a little bit more than that even it's um you're breaking down the wall between chemistry and nuclear science uh these sorts of effects and Bob can get into the details he's he's the guy with all the years of experience there but these sort of effects um allow you to access nuclear behaviors way way way more easily than was conventionally assumed like back in the back long ago when they were saying oh we could transmute lead into gold well theoretically you could I mean lead has a I think it lead is is further than gold on the the periodic table right so if you could break that nucleus up um maybe you could get a lower energy state it really depends on which isotope of gold you're going for and it depends which way you're looking at it so when we built the parkam mo reaction tables in well 2019 or 18 I don't even know when it's a long time ago now which are freely available to look at on fis.com or Lena uh sorry it's a nanosoft do co.nz you can go in there and you can type in the elements that they used calcium and potassium as one of the inputs on on the left hand side of the equation and you can put in lead uh Mercury or bismo they didn't use thalium which is good because it's super toxic um and uh those are the elements that are most likely to produce a fair proportion more than any other element combination of gold so I I was able the first thing I did because everyone asked me oh you do Lena can you make gold it's like H okay so I just dealt that straight off question and it took me 50 seconds to produce 5,000 years 5,000 years worth of alchemy uh uh um practical experiments correct the elements that they were using were the best elements to use to synthesize gold and it's not just a fish it's a nucleon exchange reaction huh interesting here's the thing because this is what I think I was trying to get you guys to say earlier because we're not picking up on what I was putting out there in terms of what is it that P my opinion when as an outside person saw all these different versions of this similar experiment and then I saw Ken shoulders and evos which is just plasma I'm sitting going well maybe there's this underlying they found out something underlying about it like how do we actually just like interact with space the manowski SpaceTime directly at that Quantum level maybe that's the interaction there and well so I guess just real quick what I want to say though is that um why can we do these transmutations at low energy and then you know I guess for Michael or for maybe for both of you then then what makes you skeptical from the physics perspective of of why we can do that if that's go ahead can I can I go ahead yeah yes sir I would say very simply that most ordinally stable uh atoms and whatever um let let's break it down a little bit more a stable electron a stable proton and a staple neutrino and their anti uh particles they are stable in our vacuum state if you are able to change the vacuum State all of the rules change they a proton is able to be stable for all of time but if you change the vacuum State then all bets are off as to what you can do you rewrite the rule book and that is what an EVO does yeah they were they were talking about this with the thunderstorm generator which I'm a little skeptical of as well um and then the uh well there there may be something there but um so the it definitely has the signatures yeah so where was I the um I guess I shouldn't say I'm skeptical per se of evos as a concept I more and critical of Bob's dialectical approach given that he um privately to me has said he wishes to not necessarily convince all the people but rather to get the technology as far as he can and that's fine I mean back in the day when when people were engineering steam engines the the equations for steam engines weren't fully figured out at the time but they were perfectly useful and people were using them and so um that's that's a fine approach um it's just the dialectical approach I mean the dialectical process assuming everything's in Evo and um you know sorry are you speaking for me sorry yeah think's just giving his criticism right now yeah so just it's best I speak for myself if that's okay I just I just worry I I just worry that it will drive away uh competent Engineers who can help you to make that steam engine work so to speak you know that's all all that's where my criticism lies not really with the EV well on the thunderstorm generator it has The Telltale signatures of this process they were predicted based on a physical sorry a visual uh video file that I was sent because we had seen the same thing in our experiments and that would produce the same things that maximoto saw that we replicated before we even know maximoto had done it now with regard to that kind of technology you just have to go and look at uh patent number 4397 268 August 9th 1983 awarded but applied for on September 24th 1981 which is a intake air moisturizer by Charles L Brown which produced similar effects um but was basically banned he was a he was a military guy um and he was just injecting moist into the engine so there's real reasons why that could work just as a a a a system by by which it creates more efficiency and that's all that Malcolm is claiming although he seems to observe oxygen coming out and this was something that was claimed by Paul Panton who also claimed nuclear transmutations and what is going on in both of those systems both of those systems have extreme multi-axis hydrodynamic Shear extreme multi-axis hydrodynamic shear and here's the thing there's only one structure in nature that allows for neg entropy and that is the vortex that is the vortex and according to Maxwell The Ether is made up of a lot of tices and if you can make a Vortex which is able to cohere something which is a condensate and spin it really really really fast you may be able to disrupt matter in ways that you ordinarily wouldn't expect you know that's interesting real quick if I can jump in yeah the reason why it's interesting that that spin or vortex might be relevant is that when we look at electrons or qu particles that are quantized we look at it from a Quantum spin P perspective because procession spin prevents something from Tipp a top from tipping over you know it it try it it prevents from being moved out of its axis moved out of its orientation so it almost does seem like if there was going to be some law of the universe that we see scaled up a scale invariant that that seems like one of them is now if you imagine you have your normal state of chaos going on where you've got like bits of spin pointing in every direction when you start one PE one thing that people might understand something about is is aligning spins Pro producing a very strong magnet and then people start to get confused what is the thing that's coming out of the magnet right yeah you know there's definitely something there it's going across space I don't see things flowing around but there must be or is there I don't know because I can't feel it I don't feel a wind that's the point of the ether as well right is that people would say in Maxwell and many other people believe that there was an ether especially the people that started and then but the problem is we couldn't well where is it we can't feel it but then you go well that's also true of magnetism but you can feel when it pushes you you know there's something there but there's not nothing pushing out at you so how's that working so I guess is that is the vortex is that the answer is that the reason why Salvador P PES um magnetically confined fusion reaction uses and many of these others use counter rotating I can't do it I can tell you that even in his wildest dreams if he did not spin those things nothing would happen the British Railways 1971 U UFO patent would not work without the big spinning homopolar generator just like the arv the alien reproduction vehicle if you didn't have those spinning things the thing would not work now what do those spinning things do where they produce these weird little clusters they it spits them out so you think that that's was Ken's shoulders do using that as well if I can if I can uh add something here uh to connect this to existing physics so that we don't scare away quite as many Engineers um if you have super fluid helium well if you have a normal fluid what happens when you spin the container it's in well relative to The Container the fluid starts spinning there's some distance in there there's like a viscosity and stuff but if you have a super fluid the um there's no viscosity so what happens well spin is quantized and so when you start spinning the super fluid it develops vorticity vertically away so and also this uh this vorticity it dies off with distance relative to the center so um on can I just say that when you spin a super fluid like liquid helium like Paul like Patra capit did and got the Nobel Prize for um you end up with with little vortices within the overall petri dish let's say yeah exactly so and we see that in our experiments we see matter torn apart by these little vortices there's a I mean just to tie it to Conventional physics if you spin if you just go outside and you spin your arms around you feel a force pulling pulling your arms out centrifugal force right well when you're in the spinning reference frame if the vacuum is a super fluid and it becomes it starts spinning relative to you because you're spinning uh then uh you will have along the spin axis a gradient of these V vortices and this creates roughly speaking what is like a gravitational field so there there's some equivalence here with conservation of momentum in this case angular momentum perhaps or um but this this outward force is like a gravitational force in its nature and these V these vortices these flux lines in the in the in the super fluid if assuming a super fluid model of the ether or vacuum or whatever you want to call it they're they're on they're quantized and on a very small scale they can interact with particles anyway um that's uh I just wanted to connect it to known physics so that we don't scare away some Engineers no that's cool because I I do think that the ether is probably quantized like that and and should be thought of as a super fluid we're talking about what am I saying that not down physics no that's that's a big point that we have to keep bringing up though is that we're not we're talking about stuff that is I keep bring up is that this is just mostly known physics but it's not it's just not very well understood like like the Aaron Hof bom effect the Aaron bomb effect is a known piece of physics that most people do not know and the Aronoff bomb effect has been calculated in 1998 by apani and dubic at dubna to occur in the center of these fractal toroidal solons these exotic vacuum objects and so you have both the thing that can cohere matter into a into a phase Singularity spin uh and cause once it's cohered unlimited amount of matter to go into a very small point right so I want to add something to that um the and you'll you'll be happy to hear about this Bob I don't know if you had considered it but um with these fractal toroidal geometries well I mean you know about Masahiro daos work I assume right uh I'm not great necessarily with names unless I personally met them they they used a zero inductance thing where you had a wire going straight and then you had a wire coil back around it to the original point and they were showing that that sort of wire it will uh it will kind of like a caducus coil as well that sort of wire was able to pick up a a voltage it induced voltage from a change in the magnetic Vector potential alone okay and so anyway this is important for these uh toroidal fractal toroidal structures because what he de what Masahiro Dao demonstrates is that okay you have this magnetic induction term from the magnetic field you also have a an induction term associated with the Divergence of the magnetic Vector potential uh which um or not even just just a a fluctuation uh of the magnetic vector vector potential over time um because of the aronov bone effect the AR of bone effect still happens in conductive media and so it will still cause charge separation and uh basically defraction of charge uh of the electrons really and possibly other matter but mostly usually when we're talking iron off we're talking electron defraction but if you have electron defraction in a conductive medium and that Medium is coiled in a way where all the Peaks line up then you can get magnet you can get induction from just a magnetic Vector potential field that's varying in time I think the that's important to me is can you take two different de broi wave links that's the wave description of a piece of matter and get them to the same kinetic energy and bring them in phase and this can do that and that's the only thing that I'm interested in can it do that yes can it do that no yes it can should be interested in connecting it to the known phys I mean I mean from the point of view of trying to get a point in which coherent matter can aggregate to go is that a coherent matter wave is that what you're talking about it leads to the coherent matter wave and when this when the overall coherent matter breaks the coherent matter wave comes out and we video these things so so here's a question I have about coherent matter actually um something I don't fully understand so basically you have fion and you have bons you make a go to the state and fion have to be in different states there's this degeneracy pressure is is I think this is the this is the the key point do these exotic vacuum objects somehow remove the degeneracy pressure and convert uh it's not a singularity Behavior convert the Fons into Bon so that they can overlap it does convert Fons into bosons yes you can look at um vf's paper from 2000 that explains it now now you can take electrons and they can all fall to the same Quantum State and you can get these extreme charges that's why yes okay so let me hold on because I wanna help our audience understand what you guys just said because many people once you said firm on bons they got no idea what you're talking about guys fion we talking about this mug here why does my hand not go through the mug because the electrons are bouncing off of it because the electrons can't collapse onto a single point they have to obey the poly Exclusion Principle they can't obey the same location in the or place in same in space and time at the same time bons can so what's an example of Bon a laser a laser has photons overlapping over top of each other so what Bob is saying is that we can convert something that's like this down onto a single Quantum point and then what Michael is saying is Well holy well then however much charge the original had it should now be Amplified down onto that single point however much was there before right is being compressed onto that Quantum the Magnetic Moment look at that wow we are figuring out some science here now that's a great thought and I want to do more stuff like that so one thing that I want to ask is that Bob you were saying earlier well neutrinos or particles or whatever they don't obey the same laws if you break down if the vacuum SpaceTime breaks down or what have you when you were saying that man that makes me think of how PUD off's SpaceTime metric engineering paper changing the refractive index of SpaceTime using electromagnetism which is also what Salvatore P's US Navy patent high energy electromagnetic field generator is literally stated to intend to do I should also mention uh Amy ESD on multiple brought up um gravitational chemistry that her father or something was or some person she knew you know her dad worked on like plasma thrusters and like well I don't know I I just recall she mentioned this gravitational chemistry thing and so under different vacuum conditions chemistry also proceeds differently um I know actually I want to ask you real quick let me just because the last thing I was going to say on that was that Ken shoulders I want to hear your explanation for this when he did it made his evos what he noticed is that he called them charge clusters the electrons were clustering together hold on let me just finish let me finish Bob please please let me finish so the electrons were clustering together but they should be repelling one another so is this the same as overcoming the kolon barrier what's the connection or is there one and what is the explanation for that behavior if it's real uh whatever yes so so so they become one explanation for it is a property of these pidal uh plasmoids plasmoids abbreviated to plasmoids and uh you then have a situation where they're frattle and they produce this iron Hoff bomb effect the iron Hoff bomb effect is able to pull in the electrons into this bit where they they go up to the center of the vortex and then they get stuck there it's not a point in it's not a Zero Dimensional point it actually the degeneracy pressure prevents them from no space they actually occupy a finite space and then you get um uh these um fermion being converted into bons and that was done in a d comp dra monopol compliant way as a topological monopol by veski in 2008 and that paper is quoted by Mo at Moscow Nuclear Physics Institute in in bogdanovich at Al where they saw these plasma TDS moving around on metal for two days so they can go in there now when you occupy the same State uh and uh you know that how many electrons have you actually really got and then the other thing is where where is the where is the charge actually coming from if it's not just that they might be going in there they might be going into the fractal clusters and when you've got uh things bound up into these structures they appear to lose their charge um and not only that if you have a normal electron it has its charge but if you have these clusters they end up having electromagnetic waves that they produce but they cancel at what's called a non-radiating boundary and outside that they don't express any of their charge and so you actually create like um a a normal vacuum object but it's a exotic vacuum object but because of its structure it cancel as its own electromagnetic waves and so there's no expression of charge outside of a particular space w we're reaching the edge of my knowledge I'm not sure how that happens yet yeah how okay well yeah instead of going too much into that it's the the first it was originally disc discovered by Yakov zeldovich and it was called an Ana pole Anna pole yeah yeah so that's in 194 and that is the basis you you have a a current Loop like that and it's oscillating an outter phase you have a two charge plates and they're oscillating it's the basis for the the the patent by in 1993 charge plates oscillating charge plates oscillating magnetic plate uh magnetic coil it's it's it's exactly the patent from Hal put off for his his scal and Vector potential pattern from 1993 and that he's basically creating a monopole but that is an anapole is not a monopole it's a it's a no I didn't say it was I never said that no point did I say that I you mentioned anapol and monopo right no I I I was discussing model model for a topological monop having a good here and we went on to discuss the anapole now the an extension of the anapole was discovered in 1965 by Vladimir duic and published in his thesis in 1967 and only first verified in 1997 in the west basically largely ignored even by Ken shoulders and other researchers however that being said the description in the uh conclusion of Ken scher's book Eevee a tale of Discovery in 19 86 87 says that we have found a perfect oscillating monopole where only scal and Vector potentials propagate outside of the structure that is his description and it's accurate for an anapole and it's also accurate although you don't necessarily see the oscillation of a fractal toroidal cluster and the fractal toroidal cluster is the anapole is the special case of uh fractal toroidal clusters the hyperal moment as they call them in the western super tal moment they call them in the Soviet sphere and you can look at this all up on Wikipedia this is main physics I should mention that these uh there are ve there are very many names for for these now there's like uh uh I saw flying donut pulses in some of the literature spacio it's not quite the same thing it's not quite the same thing cuz that's a solaron of circular polarized it's it's not a fractal C polarized it's it's it's not a fractal cluster it isn't it looks the same in pictures okay okay hold on guys let me just read this this is from Ken shoulders tale discovery that Bob was just mentioning says we are say at pre we are able to say at present that the mutual law the law of mutual charge repulsion has been overcome by the use of some unseen container to the extent that New Freedom has been found in compressing uncompress uncompensated electric charge to the average density of a solid without the use of external magnetic fields ions or relativistic velocities the exact physical mechanism responsible for doing this is still a mystery but there are theories available to help us along that are based upon radiation confin containment from Zero Point Energy fluctuations in spite of our ignorance of the details governing these observed processes two conclusions are quite quite clear one that we have tapped into a higher order of energy and charge density where even the effective values of certain basic physical constraints May might be modified and two that a myriad of New Uses will emerge so I want to get your opinions on this statement here because my takeaways are one a lot of the people that discover this they claim they don't know what is causing it and that's why I wanted to get you both of your guys' opinions on what are causing these Evo behaviors that seem to be you could call it negative energy anti-gravity you can call it whatever you want to call it but I want to get your opinions on that um he's saying directly there seems to be a link to Zero Point Energy here which is links to PUD off which wouldn't be surprised because they were Partners um and then also he's saying that this might change physical constraints so to your point it sounds like he's saying here that if we you know engineer the vacuum or P off would say polarized the vacuum whatever it is maybe we change things that we consider to be constants into variables and now that significantly changes the equations when we're trying to you know do propulsion let's start with one at a time now one at a time let's start with Michael on this one and then we'll go to Bob thanks I got excited about this one so um so yeah I mean basically um people was what was the uh Norther theorem she was saying basically the physical laws um like you have you have energy conservation and momentum conservation and all these conservation laws due to uh constant um well symmetries in physics symmetries in physics if you were to break those symmetries uh maybe you wouldn't have uh the same conservation laws anymore um the other way of going is if you have higher symmetries then maybe the conservation laws that we know uh are in some context not conserved uh but in a grander context you get the you get conservation again uh of some kind that's not necessarily energy or momentum or any of those conservation laws um as for the reason for the stability of evos um at the moment I have a lot of reading to do so I can only speculate but as I understand it with uh with masah hero Dao's work for example um and the and the Hut off's uh communication techn patent and stuff what one of these patents mentions that there are two types of uh long like a scaler way once you okay actually I should step back for a second the um electromagnetic equations are I mean Quantum electrodynamics is usually considered the most General uh I mean sorry the most uh successful physical set of laws produced um however uh it it's uh it's incomplete there there's pieces of it that were whale not included and the the main piece is this lorence gauge condition that's arbitrarily set to zero so you get um this scalar term or what people consider a scalar term which I I call it time polarized David Chester kind of cringes at that because that's not really the right explanation but basically uh we have a three Vector idea of the magnetic Vector potential um and there's really a four Vector approach for describing these fields and potentials and stuff that's got a better symmetry for the physics we want to do now um the scalar term that the lorence you're you're oh maybe you're not let me jump in and ask a real quick question on that is are you saying that when you say there I have not even begun yeah I know so that's I ask because people are probably already lost is that are you saying that if you add an extra Dimension that it you the equations can make more sense if you want if you're conceptu it was already there it's a new perspective on all physics yeah yeah this this is important the um the scalar term has units of Webers just like magnetic field what does that physically mean what does that physically mean that means that it's a relativistic phenomena so we we set it to zero because it's Laurence invariant instead of lorence covariant but lorence invariance is a superet of lorence covariant so now if you make magnetic field into a four Vector notation object maybe uh then you have three spatial Vector components of your magnetic field and a Time Direction component of the magnetic field then uh so so this new object um you can show how the standard magnetic field is derived by by particles going past each other but this component the this the scalar term it's derived by particles going directly towards and away from each other and so there is uh for magnetic field there's a special relistic approach for showing that that for justifying why uh basically you can derive uh magnetic field from electrostatics um plus special relativity with two charge carrying wires or even a charge with a wire next to it um and um this scalar term may require general relativity to justify why it should be there but basically the the the fact that it has units of Webbers shows you that it's it's got a relativistic origin um it's you you should be able to drive it from electrostatics and motion and then relativity um but that means that if you derve it only from general relativity if you can't derive it necessarily from special relativity that means it involves curved SpaceTime in some way yeah stress in the medium is how and so you're you're modifying with the scalar term you're um in fact I suspect that there is for this virtual particle flux there is uh your magnetic and electric susceptibility associated with the speed of light e and B yep if you have particles with mass as well as electric charge that are virtual particles there will be some uh Mass susceptibility there'll be uh mass density term almost associated with the vacuum and you need that for longitudinal waves when you derive the momentum of a sound wave for example you need the particles in between to all have mass so that and and compressibility so that you get the longitudinal wave uh but anyway um this all fits together quite beautifully once you remove the Loren gauge condition which was an arbitrary choice and so when you add it back in there you get that you have this scalar longit tudinal wave and you have a wave involving uh just magnetic Vector potential or something that H put off's talking about um I Heard uh actually I think it was in one of the patents by either uh Raymond sealas I think I need to check the name but um certainly help put offs patent and some of the other ones um they mentioned that you get two wave forms from this one carries energy and momentum like a standard electromagnetic wave the other just Carri um the energy which is weird and so maybe that other one is is doing something unusual here it's I don't know of any other wave type that only carries energy so it's it's very peculiar I don't know what that means yet that's wow that's cool so uh real quick I just there so basically extended electrodynamics yeah there's a physical motivation for that from applying general relativity to electrostatics problems and why you shouldn't have the luren age condition you know what even just like if you take a thermal couple I was doing this experiment the other day for random other project if you take a thermal couple and you put the whole thing at a high voltage or a low voltage if you just bring the whole voltage up or down on a thermocouple then the temperature reading will change that's because the electron gases inside the two metals in the two wires in the thermocouple those electron gases are non-ideal gases so when you change the voltage uh the behavior of those nonideal gases will change and the equilibrium voltage that you'll see on the thermal couple when exposed to a temperature gradient will change so we've just demonstrated from that experiment as well as like the B experiment and others that um when you change the potentials you change the physics so it's it's nonsensical to say that the Loren gauge should be set to zero arbitrarily and doesn't matter for the physics if you change the voltage yeah anyway yeah yeah so for the people chat who are confused this is the big thing when I've been saying that Maxwell's equations are we messed up Michael just said it in the way the PHD people can understand it's that basically we we set this value to zero we if you want to visualize what I'm talking about I'll go full screen mode for you guys real quick is that we're sitting here and that we're in our universe this is this rubber band being stretched this is our equilibrium universe that we're in right now and standard physics says this never changes this never changes that's what basically we're saying with the uh uh without the Loren invariance or whatever the lence gauge condition we're saying this never changes but then we're going well in extended electrodynamics we're taking Einstein's general relativity and we are relating it to uh electric charge and we're saying now that with that we can manipulate the medium that this is no longer this rubber band here is no longer in a fixed position that we were just feeling it in equilibrium but we can break it out of equilibrium in any way like this and exactly do that what happens we get the math the just again the normal math normal physics says that we get like Michael saying we get some energy out of it what does that represent goe pressure pressure on the vacuum what do pressure on the vacuum gravity pressure on the vacuum is gravity exactly you get gradients in your when you when you pull a rubber band tighter you get a higher wave speed along the rubber band or if you if you if you pull it less tight you get lower wav speed that's does but yeah there you go simple anyway I the the the point I was trying to make is this extended electrodynamics it has a lot of physical motivation for it and it may describe the Exotic vacuum objects that's but I I haven't researched that as much so I can't say for sure maybe Bob can help was out here yeah so we'll let Bob go here and then I'll instead of just repeating everything you know can can you repeat the question please yeah repeating the question so the the points were initially and I'm gonna add a Twist to it as well is that you know in when we were reading Ken shoulder's work uh one of the first things that he's saying is that it's a mystery to him so what do you think the underlying concept is is it the ether is it something else or Vortex motion what have you Ken shoulders connects it to Zero Point Energy fluctuation so is that part of the answer H and then he also says that there are two things that we noticed we have tapped into a higher order of energy which in my opinion implies The Ether Ken shoulders has said he believes in The Ether um and that there are many New Uses that maybe this is some kind of tool out there so I wanted to get you to respond to that but because that's too easy for you Bob I also wanted you to respond to some of the research into how you might stabilize these evos as well go okay Lord Kelvin did not understand why matter could be so stable he thought it was because of the Smoke Ring type thing and the smoke ring is a very you know the the Ring of Solon is a very stable structure uh but by 1904 1905 he realized that smoke rings do dissipate quite quickly and so do um falico solons that's half vortex's rings in in the water in the bow of a ship so he kind of dismissed that idea he never really considered fractality but when you look at the um the work of Winston Bostic from 1948 he was at a bare minimum doing two deuterated titanium electrodes with 10,000 amp uh very quick pulse pulses to vaporize the and form a plasma uh loop and these came together uh these two plasma Rings because they they pinched off and magnetically reconnected they came together and they orbited around another magnetic field in the center this was at the very very root of it a tour made of two tours that is a plasma toroids plasma plasma oids plasmoids and so when you start and what we have found in our research is and proven pretty down conclusively in recent years is that the smaller structures are more stable the smaller they get and if you follow that logic over and over and over and iterative L down you'll get to a point where a fractal toroidal geometry is 100% stable in our ordinary vacuum it doesn't matter what you do to them they are a stable now there is a guy who lives just up the road to me and after I went through a series of observational science leading to finding out that the Russians had this particular understanding that wasn't public and and then or really not recognized in the West then another guy in Germany pointed out this guy called pabel oira and he argued that for instance the electron is a fractal cluster of something smaller which are self-similar and if you go to the work of the last work of duic the Discover of the Toral moment and his colleagues carolles and shishkin who I regularly speak to they argue that at the bottom you have dark energy right the I I don't even know what that's meant to be honestly but I think it's just the vibrations of everything else and the sum total of that energy if you add all of the energy up at all of the frequencies that is dark energy and that's most of the energy of the universe right that's all the stuff that vibrates right at a different fre I have a comment on that but I'll let you finish Z Energy go ahead give me 20 minutes and at the end so that's the dark energy now when you have that energy some of that quantized into the the most fundamental structure that is the what they call the elementary LC dipole the elementary LC dipole now if it is an inductor and a capacitor dipole and it's oscillating that is the smallest anapole that exists and that is the only unique case and they call those Relic neutrinos they call those Relic neutrinos now a electron is built of a fantastic number of Relic neutrinos and they've done the mass on this unimaginable numbers of Relic neutrinos form one electron and then unimaginable you're actually seeing charge clusters in these experiments I've got I've got the same thing under my desk oh I know I I this is why I'm I'm on it Bob I'm on the same wavelength as you like I'm reading your mind and just finding stuff so the point is is the energy is just it's the vibrations in The Ether The Ether is clusters of closed Loops of energy and the and and the the that is the most fundamental thing and everything is built from there now what they argue is that um these energy clusters which they call Magneto Toro electrical clusters they are observably through experiment across from 2009 to this current day functionally equivalent to Ken shoulders what he originally called strong electrons electron validium then he called them highdensity charge clusters because he realized that they were teleporting matter right and then lastly called them exotic vacuum objects because they behaved like vacuum objects but they were exotic and here comes the key Point here I'll talk about the formation in three three bullet points four bullet points and then what that what that you get out of that when you have polar that is water or charge separated material that is plasma and you put that in a situation of hydrodynamic Shear that is to say you have um Shear forces going on because you've got uh some basically you got a fluid moving across the surface exactly what you're seeing in that ball right there multiaxis hydrodynamic Shear in fact that's less multi-axis than it needs to be to do this but it's not bad when you get multiaxis you get it quantizing into little ball little balls around the big Taurus um so yeah you got the multi-axis hydrodynamic shear this leads to self-organization into toroidal forms and then as that breaks down and there's a very good paper written by an expert in light ball lightning who worked with cof called Dyke house he's a guy from Holland and he shows he he describes this like imagine you've got one Taurus and it's not very stable but you put it down onto a table and it's a rubber band and you rub that rubber band across the table and it twists up right now if those each of those twists then Kinks and breaks off into a little Taurus we now know and we know that this is more stable now we give it more shear and it twists off and it link goes into another uh uh little more little Taurus and this goes this rinse repeats rinse repeats and it happens at a fantastically fast rate with the hydrodynamic shear and then these all link together initially through the Magnetic Moment of the very smallest Quant and all the way up through the pidal moment to the very largest Quant so you end up with a stable exotic vacuum objects Plasma toroids in the form of a plasmoid and it is comprised of a fantastic number of very small small very stable things okay so one multi-axis hydrodynamic Shear in a polar or charge separated material such as water or plasma will lead to fractal electrodynamic structures which possess fractal toroidal moments A disruption Zone this is an area where the tornado comes out it spins The Ether so much so and pulls in so much that it it causes matter to fall apart and it literally causes it matter to fall apart in these quantized hexagonal of AES and we've that actually in experiment um and then uh areas of change permitivity the fame pH in here I want to just no no no I need to finish this please okay okay go ahead otherwise it'll just be broken up with all kinds of go finish up finish it up I'll do it at the end okay so the phase Singularity and hour and half bomb effect at the center of the fractal tral structure leads to coherent matter even of electrons in the magnetic core of self and self-similar struct substructures so not just in the one big magnetic core but in the little magnetic cores and in the little little magnetic cores you have these fractal uh uh structures which all have this behavior when fractions of the coherent matter at the core exceed their Schwarz child radius a black hole is formed and I believe all black holes are these structures this then produces a topological monopole with its own bubble of appropriate vacuum within which it can exist it can it can uh stay in that state if it's fed appropriately and Ken shoulders identified that these structures of a certain scale can live in metals indefinitely why because on the boundary layer it shifts electrons around and they get sucked in and it eats electrons that how it keeps itself alive so it can persist in metals indefinitely uh and then essentially at the end of the story uh when you disrupt these things electron nuclear collapse can occur that's the title of matam Moto's book uh when the electro the Fran electrodynamic structures fail and matter is reborn into a range of column elements we have physically seen this and moreover in the work of Bing and hang we have seen a large structure break up and two substructures come out and then we've seen those two substructures out of one of the substructures two more substructures come out of that substructure those were Wheels within that wheel wheel and those were Wheels within this wheel this overall wheel and what that shows you implicitly no question and zero equations required although it's compliant with equations already done that prove this okay that it exists stronger and stronger the smaller these structures get they're more stable so they're more stable the smaller they get that's a Hu or more powerful more stable the no no no no no no no no no no no if we want to manipulate matter in our universe we need to get them to a scale where they are stable in our universe and able to pull in matter from our universe and reorganize it in that that that core and its fatal subcores and that's what it physically does okay so one thing I saw there am I looking at um I think you might be muted Michael but sorry that yeah real quick I'll let you jump in a second Michael I said one followup uh which is when I was looking at that image and I'm seeing self-organization I clearly am looking at self organization that is self organization but really it's not much better than a smoke ring it's not much better than SM starts to get better it actually when it when it breaks up into the beads it starts to look exactly like the front cover image of w of uh Wheeler's gon's paper the 1954 paper that's the literally the drawing on his am I looking at negative entropy there like am I not looking at just NE entropy is self organized so yes you are it's it's a self organizing process now where does the free energy come from the truly free energy what you are trying to do in free energy and I don't just mean gaining more energy out returned over energy invested when you're talking about really free energy you are going to need to do what the atom itself does in our ordinary vacuum State and what is that according to shishkin cors and Dev Subic there are three components to matter there is the electrons the nuclei and a condensed cluster of Relic neutrinos it's called an energy Solon this is a Magneto electrical cluster they are in all matter they're four two to 4 thousand times easier to release from hydrogen Isotopes and any other element Beyond lithium lithium is basically the end of the line to release these things and every single one of those from one hydrogen atom can release nearly 10 to the 11 born electrons that is called hidden energy within matter it has no charge it doesn't express its mass but this cluster pulls in The Ether the which and The Relic neutrinos are all at 1.97 Kelvin Universe wide that means they're not at Absolute Zero they actually have some kinetic energy and there's a lot of them and the atom breathes it takes a little bit of energy out and it keeps those electrons in orbit at the right orbit if there's too much energy it sheds that energy back into the condensate so they breathe energy in in and out now what you do because I want to ask you I want to go a different topic on Relic nutrino but I want to let Michael respond to that after no no no no no no I just I need to finish the last part of that argument and we're done okay because that's a normal vacuum object a normal atom maintaining its stability maintaining its non rting boundary right in an exotic vacuum object you are literally creating the same kind of structure as an ordinary electron and proton even an atom and you're but you're creating it at an exotic state in our vacuum and for for it to survive it needs to one create its non-radiating boundary inside that non-radiating boundary it has to have a different space time and it needs to have this little ass where it sucks in ordinary matter from our vacuum State extracts energy from it to keep it operational and spits out the balance and that's how it works in my view that that would be much more powerful than fision or Fusion that you could just take it's unlimited at any point in the universe any old matter yeah or or even The Relic neutrinos maybe and and this is what was written in a CIA release document in 2017 I re reconstituted this because they didn't think it was valuable it was it was it was newspaper article when scientists were defunded on mass in 1992 oh I'd love to see that article it was people on the peripheral of the uh energetics program and they said this is 1992 they said this is the same as the process as that cold fusion thing that they're talking about in America right this is what I want get let me jump in here the hidden energy about so it's I'm really glad we got this chance to talk Bob and I get got a chance to listen very closely to what you're saying because so I think I I'm starting to be able to connect this to the existing physics which is uh precisely what the my criticism at the start was is just connecting it to the existing stuff so um so when we have uh when we have Shear in a super fluid like superfluid helium superfluid helium can only take a certain amount of shear before it becomes an ordinary fluid so there's um that might be something to do with the fact that it warms up well this is this is what's causing this is what's causing the non-ordinary vacuum State you're taking so even just actually before we even get to that just when they uh when they have like Gamay and things the Gamay never really spontaneously break into electron positron pairs you need to hit a a plasma with those gamma rays in order to get the bright wheeler process to happen you need matter to be you're thinking about this too complicated I'll tell you where there's a nonin vacuum finish yeah you need matter to be there in order for those gamma ray to turn into electron positron pairs yeah uh like that this has been shown many times over like the standard model you would generally expect okay a high enough energy gamma ray should be able to spontaneously fision into electron positron pair but you never really see it happening it's never I don't think it's been shown to happen if I recall from the literature but I I'm don't quote me on that yeah that that could still happen someone could figure out a clever way um but uh the important thing here is when you take an ordinary superf fluid and you apply an extreme Shear to that and this is why you see um in a lot of these like free energy devices you see um you have you have magnetic coils with opposite wind or opposite current flowing through them very close together this creates a region inside there where you have zero magnetic field but also zero magnetic Vector potential but what's not zero is something called the Hertz potentials and the Whitaker potentials and so those Hertz and Whitaker potentials are roughly speaking associated with the axons and Dillons which which are the two types of excitations that you can have in super fluids I'll take a look at that book later yeah that sounds you won't oh online okay anyway so um but but what I'm saying here is like all of these free energy devices I've seen they have boundary layers with high which which would be applying High relativistic Shear to the vacuum and under those conditions it makes sense if the vacuum is some sort of superf fluid medium that that high Shear would would would break the usual behavior of the vacuum and it would start behaving like an ordinary fluid or a different fluid and then everything in the vacuum that's interacting with the vacuum would start to exhibit the different Behavior that's starting to make sense to me from the a bu analogy from analogy with existing physics the other thing I just wanted to mention that um dark energy and dark vacuum uh sorry dark uh matter dark energy and dark matter are um they're they're epicycles they're they're they're epistemological epicycles like before we switched from geocentric to heliocentric theory those will be going away there are better explanations there's something called oh I'm glad you said that can can I sh you some slides today okay hold on hold on no we're not no slide never been shared in the west and it was shared today by uh Dimitri baronov today the world's well there is paper in the west as well uh the interior Schwarz child solution so basically assuming the universe is a black hole which if you calculate the matter density and the size and things yes the universe is kind of a black hole uh from our reference frame uh everything else has been falling far away from us has been falling into the black hole for less time than we have assuming we're using light as our means of determining what like because we're looking into the past when we're looking at normal light so um we see a red shift because we're falling into the black hole faster than that stuff is that's why we see a red shift and um the dark energy is just the entropy increase in that basically once you form a black hole the the volume inside the black hole starts growing based on entanglement and that's that gets to ER equals epr and susane stuff a bit anyway uh that's all I wanted to mention there oh can I can of respond to the my turn it's my turn I wait listen to both of you I it's not GNA take very long we're gonna we're trying to wrap it up before two hours I mean yeah end up going over my two-hour limit that's fine uh but I I'll let you guys get out here pretty soon I just wanted to point out that Bob you finally got what I was trying to get you to say all along which is you kind of explain the idea of The Ether and how the ether is what's sustaining this Evo capability and then this does add this energy where now as Michael was saying we can basically break this uh conservation that we see on from our current perspective of physics from the mainstream perspective but if you add in this idea of ether well it's still conserved now because the energy that we were not conserving before is now just being exchanged with The Ether and I think that's what he he meant when he's saying like bring back you know lorence Gage condition kind of situation maybe I'm wrong on that it's it's required in order to when when you bring back the longitudinal modes you see that there's this uh the the the Herz and the Whitaker potentials um connect electromagnetism to a um a ukawa coupling and a basically a super fluid Behavior there's a super fluid Behavior here that's intrinsic to the potentials and the super potentials for electromagnetism a couple derivatives up uh but it's the same structure and electromagnetism falls out as part of this super fluid behaving structure but it's not always a super fluid if you apply enough Shear it seems yeah if you if you break the symmetry of it imagine we're in equilibrium if you break that then you can get it to behave differently and that's what I think Bob is basically saying and potentially what the overall secret of cold fusion might not just be oh well we figure out a more efficient way maybe a way that seems to be what we would say impossible uh efficient way instead what we found is this property of the universe which if you want to call it the ether great if you want to call it Zero Point Energy great if you want to call it the neutrino flux of the background great you know call it whatever you want to call it but the beautiful approach of it which was also something that Poff wrote about in 1987 which was the ground state of the hydrogen atom is that in my opinion I think Bob just said this beautifully is that you imagine that like all the atoms are breathing breathing energy in and out that's what keeps them in this equilibrium state so that's why they're so stable all the time non-equilibrium steud State it's a non-equilibrium study State it's an important distinction and we'll get into that in another because they're broken energy yeah we'll talk about that sorry sorry that's great this conversation specifically non-e equilibrium is is that not every s not every single thing is exactly the same kinetic energy yeah fair and and um steady state versus equilibrium is a very nuanced topic so it's a conversation for another time but okay so two more things because uh Michael I want to address the super fluid discussion because when you were trying to bring this out to you were saying okay I want to get the the you know the academics back involved in this think about super fluidity super conductivity super fluidity we looking at Quantum effects on the macroscopic scale we're seeing things that are separate acting as one and this is also then what Bob is saying is that what if we're using this same phenomenon what if our plasma or they produc is super fluid what it's a super fluid circuit itself well so I I should I should mention one thing where I don't necessarily I don't know if I agree yet with salus on this one part uh he he calls it macroscopic quantum coherence but that's assuming our current understanding of quantum mechanics if if we have to make a correction to Quantum Mechanics I mean if we have to make a correction to classical electrodynamics with the longitudinal scalar term and maybe I'm Maybe I'm Wrong here but if we have to make a correction to the um classical electrodynamics we have to revise Quantum electrodynamics so what we see as a Quant macroscopic Quantum effect might be a type of classical effect that we hadn't considered yet and so to back that up there was uh these some there were these things called uh squeezed vacuum States in vacuum you can have this propagation of vacuum noise as a wave in the form of a wave and these squeezed vacuum States they propagate like a particle they have all the basic properties of what a particle is uh but people don't call them particles why is that because in quantum mechanics uh when you take the square of the wave function you don't get a probability of one you need to use something else called the vigner Quasi probability distribution because by definition a squeezed vacuum state is not a particle on its own we have to find it not to be a particle so of course when you're trying to use a squared wave equ a wave function uh that is meant to understand the the particle zoo that we already have and there's this other particle there uh that's just not part of that particle Zoo it is excluded from uh from that system but when you use the vigner Quasi probability distribution you get a probability of one like a normal particle and so um there's something classical in um in classical electrodynamics that we missed and we now have to rework that into quantum theory and a lot of physicists are going to be a little upset about that got a video you watch brother they shouldn't be they shouldn't be because that's years and years of work uh so it's a little depressing at the start but now they won't have to worry about losing their jobs because of string theory so there you go a that's great and I yeah I've got a video to show you on that we're not gonna have time to go through everything I wanted to go through tonight because it's great but I'm gonna let Bob respond here uh next um but before I do that too I just want to say the other thought I have out there is that okay I'm just going to say it from the MH 70 videos there's no material confining the balls those are clearly balls of amorphous Plasma in those videos so if that's real then somebody's figured out that their tokomak or whatever doesn't need metal container at all and that gives credit to the idea that Bob is saying is that somehow they figured out a way with just waves alone to stabilize it into a sphere where the energy is not able to radiate outwards otherwise a ball plasma just disapp paid out like fire does or something right and dis and disappear or lightning like lightning does okay um go ahead Bob well I do agree that uh there's going to need to be jobs for people in string theory because string theory is just a Monumental waste of billions and billions and Decades of people's intellectual capacity they're welcome in uh contest matter phys it's my time okay okay it it has 10 dimensions and like they're the easy versions and you don't need anything more than the dimensions we know and can feel and touch in the Exotic vacuum object Theory it just needs nothing else and everything is explained right so you don't need to make New Dimensions um in terms of neutrinos I'm literally looking at something that's never been made public in the west right in front of my screen uh and it it took 27 megawatts of power and a 70 G gig electron Vault protons and this chamber is just amazing um and so you said no presentation so I'll do it some other time um uh but uh this this has never been seen outside Russia and because it was Alexander Park's celebration birthday is 80 on it was on the end but they celebrated it today the Russian Community I got to see this very much so 100% neutros are a real thing I'm sorry you haven't got to see them right or you didn't have the capability to detect them in the west but they have been detected right and if they are at a range of energies in this detection device there will be low energy neutrinos and they are the thing that Parov uh established in his work here following doing the psychic spy program research which he went into more detail during today's stream as well which was absolutely fantastic and it was only because he did that work that he could find these uh uh structures um and they are able to do inverse speed to Decay and so whatever you think does weak interaction these things can be lensed into a Target and if you think it's a weak interaction that's mediated by the neutrino doing the the mediation of the weak Force then 100% these are neutrinos they're a real thing from both ends of the spectrum large physical experiments and experiments you could choose to do yourself if you wanted to um so they are a real thing so those people that don't think they're a real thing and are moving towards trying to write them out of the equation are going to find a problem with explaining how things work um and so with with that said um we have an opportunity in front of us and the the experiments that I was I was shared to today is it's just freaking amazing but what is going on in the west is they are focusing people on metal hydrogen energy why because they can be made into propellants for missiles and torpedoes flat out that's why it is right it's not to do you any favors and that's why in the west they're spending so much money in the military circles and Military and University contractors to make better faster and and uh the calculation is it's about a thousand times more bommy bomb when these things are turned into bombs without being nuclear so they don't have to use nuclear bombs but they can use uh material that's a thousand times smaller to do the same damage um and so you want to know why they want to keep this WRA that's why um and you can go and have a look at this it is the um uh Alice rocket from Purdue University Pennsylvania State University uh and they used uh nanop particles of aluminium and water in in their ice it was frozen into an ice block nanoparticles of aluminium and anat kimoff knows 100% that this produces Lena because when you put that mixture into his his Vortex reactor which is what net IQ is based off because net IQ worked with anatol koff's partners and then net IQ was working with engate and engate took that technology on so it's all anat kof's work right um just um yeah send that to me after because I'd be curious to see that so I've been translating it but yes it's a lot of my Russ so he would be able to I'm pretty proficient at it it just takes a little bit of time to turn through guys we're running out of time and so one thing I I just quickly want to show Michael and and everybody that's out there is that because you were talking we've been talking about waves and one of the things I think maybe Bob was talking about as well uh where is it this one okay is this idea of a resonating uh cavity uh or um let's say you have your cavity walls shifting this here is a clip from actually presentation by Rob Chambers he's looking at this locking Martin Engineers book named Larry Reed and what's Happening Here is they're taking a a standing wave and then they're Shifting the walls of the wave of the of the cavity like this like you know oscillating them and that oscillation causes this uh phase shift to occur and this is actually apparently how similar to how um they do like sh second lasers or something like that it's kind of how I found this but uh I don't know taking Tak a look at this potentially when you get a chance because he talks here about I think coherent matter waves yeah that's that book with the cover with the that yeah that has the squeeze vacuum States in it that book or this is the squeeze vacuum State thing right here because this is what squeeze vacuum State that's what he's doing right is the idea of squeeze vacuum says you're just squeezing the vacuum and therefore changing the modes what he's got here you I mean with the descriptions of pushing the boundaries that's a that's called a parametric interaction or possibly your well messing with the boundary conditions for is different than a parametric thing maybe but yeah I mean his face was described uh by Tom Bearden and many others um I'm still figuring out what they were talking about to some extent I'm not sure it's the just overlapping waves constructive and de constructive interference just look at the 1950s explanation by Patra capit of the formation of ball lightning he says microwaves come down reflect from the ground they produce a standing wave and because they're reflecting it's phase conjugated and he says transverse to the standing wave you get the formation of the energy structure that produces ball lightning that's exactly what do in our uh Ultra experiments but with sound yeah they CLE figured out how to manipulate that manipulate the boundary conditions create a standing wave and then probably even modulate it like why not right if you you can also create nodes by interfering waves so you have the EM Drive was doing also yeah and in fact this mentions the EM drive that that presentation I'll uh I'll put it in the in the chat we're going to review it on one my you need you need a nonlinear medium to do phase conjugation properly that's the thing they were uh so like a lot of these early experiments they were they were studying longitudinal waves and things and they were just using electromagnetic coils and capacitors um and when you add a nonlinear medium that's when you start to see strange effects many people mentioned this Floyd s mentioned this Tom beard mentioned this but that nonlinear interaction term breaks the Symmetry that that that keeps you from getting these sorts of effects so and that's this is important because really what I'm getting at here and the whole point of this cold fusion research is that I think that ultimately one of the secrets here might be that when you start to get these anomalous effects due to whatever it might be the you know breakdown of the vacuum or whatever it is that we're doing to break it out of equ ibrium those some of those effects are dangerous and scary you know it is very possible like we're seeing claims where all of a sudden we're getting to 800 over Unity or C 600 cop or whatever it was that Bob was saying and so now it starts to be a question of like we can we can make a weapon out of this like you can imagine Ry you could see a reality in which the story goes that John archal Wheeler Richard feeman and others figured out this secret and that they could produce a weapon that basically had no limit and and just realized like okay this is something that like we have to keep hidden for the rest of time for as long as we can literally keep it hidden for well it's just it's beyond weapons you can you can Reen this is you can re-engineer reality physical physical reality however you want it to be That's The Power of gods and we're not ready for it and salvator P literally says that in his patents and his papers that you can literally and and yet reality and yet it's clear that they've already done it yeah I think they've already done it and that's the part where Michael to your point is we're not ready yeah we're not ready we'll probably never be ready not us as human beings no they' already fig we're not ready but we're right to be manipulated by it and this is exactly what I wanted to transition into for our last topic which is how do we get it out and do we get it out because now I'm talking to two people who can understand the implications most people I I you know I see this stuff in MH370 videos and in my mind I go why can't that just get bigger and the answer is it can because it's scale invariant and so you look at that you go okay there's basically There's No Limit we can make a big bang right can can I go first on this one sure right we already use it since the 1920s in electro wire uh uh discharge Machining okay it produces these spherical balls that are able to cut even up to tungsten carbide using just deionized water that is your dialectric through which the Spheres form and is a source of hydrogen and a 300 Micron wide that's a wire that's oneir of a millimeter you're able to cut through for instance even tungsten carbide so um and when you look at that under the microscope I it was never explained and I was able to explain it in literally 90 seconds from looking at under the microscope um in in the case of HHO cutting HHO cutting uh We've proven that it produces these clusters that can transmute matter we did that in 2019 in Japan when you do HHO cutting you can go and see these videos in China where they used H or Browns gas the plasma is coming down it's very close to the metal and it produces these extreme hydrodynamic shears it produces the coherent matter and it will cut through half a meter of Steel very very cleanly um so there's two methods directly which are already used every day in Industry so there are ways this technology can be used uh in uh all that you can go and interact with then then ultrasound is doing it so we we have a project uh um that I'm supporting uh called um evolabs doio and several of the things that I've identified these are patents that have expired of technology and you know when you're on the right technology because all of these military types pop up and try and attack you and that happened literally when I was talking about this uh technology um from a um a guy called kadoff who was even dismissed by his own Russian counterparts until after he died in 2003 and then they verified that he could his approach could remediate beta Isotopes which means it's a weak interaction which means that some neutrinos involved somewhere uh in in pretty much instantaneously in the HydroWave reactors and this is in a uh only partially disclosed Declassified document from 2009 for the Department of energy and i' I've shared those references before and that was in 2006 and 2009 so this is remediation of nuclear waste once you've got remediation of nuclear waste you can use normal fusion and uh sorry normal fishion rather with impunity because you can have small nuclear modular reactors everywhere around um and you can you can run the remediation of these things and the waste that they produce very very easily the argument oh no we're going to produce a little bit of radioactive waste what do we do with it that that that argument has stopped and and so you know that enables un unimaginable amounts of energy from for instance like thorium is so much thorium for instance in India alone in just Kerala alone there's enough thorium to run India for about 300 years if they replaced all their their energy with thorium so like there's there's tools but what you're going to be doing is using cold fusion to fix or or exotic vacuum objects to fix the waste right and what kof's saying today is basically when you use plasma toids plasmoids you always get transmutation period and you Boulder over was on there we had Sav atam over and they were saying like you know all of our experiments produce these transmutation so we're the problem is the West has been so stove piped in with their textbooks and their equations to make sure they can't ever discover this because they're just bounded by all these very great things that they can spend a lot of time writing papers on like string theory that they never get anything useful done meanwhile when you actually try this like garage researchers like K yuran did you know I I visited a guy called Yan Rak in Prague he's going to be replicating Hank uran he worked at CERN he worked at some of the National Labs in the US he's gone I never got anything really useful out of that entire part of my career now I want to do what you're doing because I can see it works so we we are at a stage where we are taking this for ourselves and that's how it always had to be we could never rely on people to give it to us conter Point you're not wrong but how over under five minutes how long does the Earth last if we give everyone in the Middle East a nutrino bomb more more than five minutes or less than five minutes how long well people actually most people just like to to to get on with their lives they just do they just like one though that's the problem that's the problem right like I'm just I'm I'm still Manning the Deep State uh argument for why we're not ready for it there argument is simply if we give the I'll give you a reason these things need to be St small to be stable right and I can tell you when you make a reactor that works and it runs for a long time it's going to destroy its environment that it's in and when you switch it off it won't work again that's not making me feel safer no I mean that's that's a matter of engineering Bob that's not a it's not it's not no no it's not there's no matter that you can make with all the nanotechnology in the world because you're going to be making all that nanotechnology out of ordinary bionic matter which has a lower binding energy than an exotic vacuum object's boundary layer and so it always vanquishes any ordinary matter it's not a matter of opinion you you're the one who says that you can hide a you can put an object between in your little toroidal structure and teleport it you said that there's a safe Zone there's there is a safe Zone inside yes I'm talking about the boundary when you make a reactor to produce energy you cannot you cannot bound it in something in ordinary matter you can use Fields but the fields have to be bound in something and what this does is it Chucks out these substructures periodically which are very hard to contain and that's what's melting tungsten and lithium on the inside of toomax and they know that right they just won't admit it they they did have one of the researchers we work with go to CERN to to tell them and oh this looks a bit like loner experiments and so so they know that but it will destroy the reactor but you can get a re run you don't think we can destroy you think that we can't make something one it's already been done two when it's operational as long as you keep it bounds itself you also said it's like a thousand times more powerful than a nuke so like no no no no no no you keep it bound at a quantized level and it has it own boundary like if you have some crazy person who wants to blow up the world like they're not going to listen to that you need everyone to be trustworthy I know already a bunch of people who have these devices working in their houses they sell them even if you know where to look I I wouldn't say where necessarily but like put him on the full screen because they are trusted show me the money mate show me the money because they that's because they are trusted to an extreme degree with these Technologies oh yeah so so like and they I'm sorry if you're an also ran who said I had something I just don't believe it I just don't believe it right Bob you're the one to say you don't believe it no I'm the one to say if someone says they got it in their house I don't it show me it show me it because I've seen that like okay if everyone has it's like okay the gun debate if you're in the countryside you need to protect yourself from a bear or a Breakin and the police are two hours away you need a gun sure if you're in the middle of the city in an apartment building with 10,000 other people and 100 of those people are crazy then any of those people could be crazy and have a gun that's a different lived environment if you have the world and then suddenly everyone including crazy people can build a nuke in their garage see finally I'm talking to somebody who understands the implications and no disrespect Bob I love you but I feel like a lot of people have this fanciful optimistic View and this is where I can agree with the Deep State uh Gatekeepers where it's like no it's definitely going to be the world you need to go back and look at what I've said you need to go back and look at what I said in 2017 when I realized that this had already been made I had a decision to make walk away with my reputation intact and everyone liking what I did but not being able to move forward in the field because I knew I couldn't move forward in field unless I used the technology that it actually runs on rather than what you're being told to try and find out whether it runs on right you had to look at what it actually works with and and and the implications of that and realizing that they had already weaponized it in in in specific cases where they' used those weapons before I ever realized what what I saw when my friend sent me those videos that you you've done lots of things on um uh I I I had to think uh do we only do I have to accept to the end of my days that uh everyone that I know has to toil hard based on a lie and live in this world of a lie just because I think my precious should be be my precious that's a that's a good counterargument it's like should we just live alive I want the positivity to come out of this not the negativity and what I'm talking about is a little reactor that's millimeters across and can produce all the energy for your home uh and and you know yes if you put it into a drone and and charge Evo weapon am I here am I back okay I'm back you lost me for for a second what' I miss I I just I just said Evo weapons is what I heard with the drones yeah so if you if you had an unlimited energy of any site type what orever you're going to have drones that can fly around forever and they're going to be able to use electromagnetic uh guns and shoot whatever they want but so okay all right so so here's the here's the truth here's the here's the Dark Truth so like basically this is the power of gods and yes there we go well we're in for a difficult time the next 20 years this is legitimately an evolutionary it's an evolutionary bottleneck but the cat's kind of out of the bag now the momentum is already building for this uh we are a species built upon Evolution and the greatest of wisdom comes from successful adaptation to the greatest of suffering so it's going to be a rough time but we can get through this and I guess Bob's right in a sense is like now we have this we need to learn to live with it we need we need to learn to be okay with each other Ken shers only censored one paper that he wrote in all of the papers he wrote It's called disruptor dopdf he also wrote another treaties on electromagnetic weapons he says sooner or later everyone will have electromagnetic weapons if you have a normal weapon that weapon will kill you because you shoot an electromagnetic weapon at it and it'll cause the the Munitions in that device to blow up so you'll be killed by the thing that you're using to try and defend yourself I guess that's what they call these things but I mean you can't trust that everyone in our current situation in our current Society okay they said he argues he argues through the whole situation he says at first they'll try and legislate against it but it's so easy to do that people will just do it anyway and sooner or later everyone will have to have one then everyone's on even so my view in 2017 was you have an asymmetry in the world and what you've got is you've got some countries H that have got these weapons and if you have a situation where this country gets replaced by a person who's autocratic and is a little bit mental you already have the problem you're trying to solve and they've already got the weapons at the deliverable state so what are you worried for if if you're just giving it to everyone you're only you're only slightly changing the timeline that's true the only the only people who have used a nuke are are the countries that are trying to keep this secret in the first place so like why why and that's it and in a billion years we get engulfed by the envelope of the Sun so it doesn't really matter there was nothing here to begin with and there nothing here in a billion years a l Less Reason to fight but but so we have an ultimate Destiny which is be fried by Sun right Fried by Sun Fried by black hole super what zero point super whatever but in a billion years the sun is predicted to engulf us right so that is always end game so what we need to do is use this technology to become a multiplanetary species and I would argue multi- Galaxy species and that should be the the prize that you should hold on to yeah sure some stupid people are going to shoot at some stupid people and if they total the planet then honestly it's going to be totaled anyway and we all die so get over it right well hold on a planet if you can live in space gravitational well is also an economic no you can't you don't have the enough Relic ch neutrino flux in your body to keep you functionally alive your calcium starts falling apart all your biological function starts interesting I'll have to look into that don't have flux of chi you cannot live and you need the planet to live on and we evolve with the planet we're living on one thing I want to point out is that I think thinking that we're going to live for another four billion years is pretty naive I'm worried about us surviving for another 253 years and it's not nuclear winter I'm afraid of it's total Annihilation I mean I think you made my argument for me which was basically that this technolog is going to become ubiquitous like very quickly and this is both of you guys by the way that's what you said Bob and then Michael's like yeah you can't hide it for very much longer like people just randomly have free energy devices but they're trusted with it so you know we let them have it and maybe build it for people who are also trusted you know it's crazy that that kind of stuff there's levels Benjamin hang has a device that produces 4.6 cop kimoff has a device that produces 13 we can replicate device that was developed in the 1980s that produces a cop of 13 these things are not earth shattering but they're transformational to societies but they're going to be very very disruptive to oil producing Nations the threat actually comes from oil producing Nations rather than terrorists and if we if we think they're terrorists they're not terrorists they're oil producing Nation F funded terrorists right yeah I want to say that I I just playing Devil's Advocate in some cases obviously I'm for disclosure I'm like one of the main people out here pushing for the disclosure of this stuff that I also saying can destroy us I just want us to have an honest and and realistic conversation about the dangers of it because we cannot just brush it off we all die anyway the planet will be destroyed ultimately we need to be able to get off this planet and spread our seed that's exactly my my view as well is like hey let's just get the technology try to get out of here before somebody wipes us out maybe that's how this has got to play out maybe that's why we're here at first place you know who knows and the other thing I want to say is because I think that the whole plan of this UFO disclosure I think this is what the big secret is what we've been talking about tonight is that at the end of the day they figured out some secret property of the universe and it's The Ether or something and they figured out how to get like huge amounts of energy out of it which we would call cons free energy and that explains why they've been hiding all this weird stuff and what have you but like you said at the end of the day they're thinking oh we have to get like people to wake up and then like become ready for this technology and like Michael said we're not ready and I don't think we're ever going to be ready I through my life one at a time go ahead yes I have seen through my life extremely disruptive technology come in and humans have always suck sucked it up we are incredibly adaptive species that's why we run this planet all over this planet we can live in the coldest climbs to the hottest climbs it'll just be another bump in the road yes it it'll be very very significant but we in my opinion have already used this technology and it is our Birthright and sentient entity entities will unless they're really really stupid and are not paying attention to how nature actually works they will be using this technology all across the cosmos whether anyone told them or not it's an inevitability that you will understand how the how the root level access of the universe works so this is perfect actually um Ashton the question is do you think someone will blow up a city first or like or do you think that someone will decide to Homestead on an asteroid first I think a lot more people would be interested in homesteading on an asteroid than blowing up a city a lot more people and you know more competent people to get the thing faster Michael this technology as I said from the outset is just not very good the bigger you make it you have to work harder and harder to make it stable at a bigger structure it's an implosive technology it wants to bring things into it not throw it out it's a cold let me add let me address that because this is something I haven't said or maybe only said once on on a podcast which that that's a great point is this is where I would disagree with you Bob is this is where I think that Michael is right that it's actually just an engineering challenge to take something that's very oh it's always engineering yeah you do it with fields and you don't switch it off so there's more than just energy Tech here you can I want to make one point and then you can jump in which is that I asked Salvador pise in some private conversations about this because I think that a wormhole and a black hole are really the same thing and that the idea is that when you make the black hole the Wormhole it's going to instantly close back up because you're breaking that symmetry of that energy and then it's instantly trying to fill in just like if you're trying to pull water out of the ocean it's going to fill in right away I think that same thing is potentially happening and then I so I asked him or he sent me a paper and the paper was basically arguing we would never be able to make a black hole because it's essentially going to collapse and break down too quickly and you know what s's response to me was when he sent me that paper this paper will be proven 100% wrong one day that's what he said we make black holes every time when we're doing these experiments it's it's it's it's what an black hole actually is rather than the three different mutually exclusive things that people tell you the important thing here is like you can manipulate energy in interesting ways you can also manipulate momentum in interesting ways if there's this CA of particles you call them Relic neutrinos uh the the existing physics Community calls them Axion and D well axons are clusters of Rel neutrinos okay same difference same difference but anyway um so Axion uh in the in in the super fluid context there's uh in uh what was it uh there's some vort vortices in superconductors I forget the name unfortunately um but yeah vorticity and superconductors you can look into it um yeah and uh superc conductors and super fluids they have two behaviors they have these quantized forti and you have buul waves which are like the squeezed vacuum States know as fluxons or abasov V abris vortices thank you yes that's the one uh but yeah you have these two properties of super fluids in the vacuum and these are giving you I think the Exotic vacuum States or allowing these to happen within the extended electrodynamics framework and um those uh those super fluid behaviors it's if you can't just push off a super fluid in the standard way but if you figure out how to impart that momentum then here's a super here's a material medium instead of like Rocket Fuel that you can push against it's like paddling a boat instead of using a rocket and throwing your propellant out the back surrounded in an ocean of propellant you can sink you can you can exchange energy with it but you can also exchange momentum with it large amounts of momentum anyway um so talking about being in a something put put yourself in this imaginary just play do this thought experiment with me imagine yourself inside a proton what makes that stable what is the space that you're looking at when you're sitting inside that proton and it's in theory in our vacuum it's stable for all of time right it is its own little SpaceTime bubble and it doesn't radio electromagnetic waves yes it has a charge but it doesn't radiate electromagnetic waves well you can think of an electrostatic field as an electromagnetic wave with a frequency of zero and so it's always go go step out from the outside and go on the inside what we don't have in the standard model a way of explaining that and so this could explain that but I need to learn more for that so I I can't really help you that much with that okay well guys we've been going for 2 hours and 30 minutes and I just I think I want to wrap this up so I'm thinking that what we should do here is just do final thoughts and shout outs to whatever you want to shout also I want to say this was a great conversation uh I learned some amazing stuff I think that the viewers probably learned a lot as well H sorry for any uh issues that were there I'll try to edit those out and maybe re-upload this later so let's go ahead let Bob go first thank you for being with me here today Bob go ahead final thoughts and shout outs thank you very much m Michael uh for being here and thank you uh Ashton for hosting this uh I really want to thank you again for your uh determined effort to do whatever you can to get some disclosure uh that is really commendable I would like people to direct people to my um my uh blog which is at remote view. IU remote view. IU if you want to subscribe there for free that's great if you want to subscribe uh and help me that would be good too um also please look into the project which is to set up minimum viable products of various outof patent patents that I believe work uh and that is Evo dlabs doio evolabs doio and lastly the Martin Flashman Memorial project at mfmp on YouTube at mfmp on uh um uh X and Facebook and you'll see all of the work that I have done now uh it's just amazing speaking to Alexander parkam off today he he signed this book for me when I visited in Moscow on the 20 uh 7th of the 2nd 2015 that is now over 10 years ago you can't really see it there I need to get that before it goes um we are at the new dawn of an old age uh we have a technology lick Lally at the tip of our tongue it's right there for the taking and I think we can do it we have to do this ourselves we cannot rely on anyone to give it to us yeah than go ahead Michael cool um again thank you thank you Bob uh excellent conversation I learned a lot I think I actually had a few breakthroughs while we were talking and I was really like thinking about what you were saying uh that really connected the physics together for me in a better way and I hope that other people uh can take those connections and do useful things with them and thank you so much for hosting this Ashton um I guess in terms of name drops I guess Apec the alternative propulsion engineering conference um they've been great to work with uh and collaborate with over the past couple of years and discussing these projects including exotic uh propulsion and Energy Technologies um so um definitely go check them out if you liked this conversation um I have uh also uh a hackaday page for uh any engineers and makers who are interested in uh participating contributing and collaborating in any of the op Source projects that we do um and uh there's a we're actually looking for uh RF engineers and uh Power Electronics folks to assist us with some of our work so Ashton will drop some links in the uh description when he does the reupload I suppose or when maybe he can edit the this description but we have uh our own company s LLC as well where we do similar research to what Bob's talking about awesome thanks Michael yeah I went ahead and added those links in the description already and I'll do that the up so thank you guys both for being here on this episode of hard truth you guys have a great night I'm going to drop you guys down just go through some of the super chats and just thank them and then end the stream so thank you guys both very much appreciate you for being my guest in this awesome conversation can't wait for doing to do more in the future later guys thanks Aston okay guys um so I just want to go through some of the super chats because we have some amazing super chats here today in in the live stream discussion and thank you guys for being here on this hard TRS live stream edition episode of Cold Fusion I hope you learned about uh cold fusion and kind of the science behind how Fusion research Works um Mike Mark Scott another fantastic podcast huge donation thank you as usual truth teller thank you very much brother thank you for this donation uh very civilized conversation sorry a lot of us are just really excited so we were talking over each other I tried to keep it to a minimum hopefully it was fine Lisa confused about the physics hopefully you learned a little bit Lisa hopefully you learned a little bit if you didn't that's fine as well uh but hopefully you did I think that there was a lot of really good information there uh sack sacker thank you very much baz Zing for that donation appreciate you oh second donation thank you look studious guys I dress better for my live streams than I do in real life uh Lisa with the followup uh oh you're putting technology on the grid Thank you Lisa for all your hard work on putting energy to the grid we appreciate it you know us cavemen out here we need that we still need and rely on Basic Energy today so you know what until we have the Zero Point Energy devices whatever else we can use great uh vanilla Isis now that's a very uh unsettling name given the context of what we've been discussing um I'm not sure how I should react to this donation I think we'll just say thank you thank you that's enough uh t one tact thank you very much project Marauder 1995 us DOD put some of that info in the Discord and we'll take a look at that oh we have microwave weapon lasers and rq4 is fact you know what I believe you and hey another donation Sandy Labs has made it I also believe that too I also believe that too you don't even need to present evidence swen just heads up Ashton references to Eric Davis confirming zpe in ER in age of disclosure yes I've seen the notes on age of disclosure and it does seem like Hal Poff and Eric Davis are getting more bold about how they confirm 0. energy which can explain in my opinion and I think we talked about today a lot of the anomalous effects and claims that were made in cold fusion and then last Lisa last one Lisa thank you for that third donation we're all about to get rounded up intent to Diego Garcia I hope not guys guys uh no live stream on Friday instead it's going to be a restream of the evidence uh uh stream I believe and then potentially we'll do an edit of this one as well we will see so once again thank you very much all my guests tonight and everybody MH 27x all the people watching thank you all have a great night peace out everyone later let's go with uh infrared eyes scanning the black tracking the heat never turning back and R 22 a covert gaze and roll 33 in the cosmic Maze and rolls in the mix Secrets Untold silent washers Brave and Bold in the shadows they silently Glide protecting our interest far and wide Asar Sentinel of the night watching over with infrared sight alerting us to thre ofar guiding our defenses like a guiding star in the Silence of space they keep their post Shields unseen yet feared the most with precision and speed they warn of danger keeping us safe from the missiles anger as beers Sentinel of the night watching over with inference sight alerting us to threats of far guiding our defenses like a guiding star and rols in the mix Secrets Untold silent Watchers Brave and Bold in the shadows they silently Glide protecting our interests far and wide as spear senel of the night watching over with infarct sight alerting us to threat of far guiding our defenses like a guiding star asars Sentinel of the night watching over with infrared sight alerting us to threats of far guiding our